00:01.54
calltocourage
Hello and welcome to the call to courage podcast I'm Gareth Pickering and I'm joined today by Dan Thomas hello dane good to see you. This is ah the second take of this recording I'm not sure what happened last time are you plugged in.
00:09.46
Dane Tomas
Um, hello.
00:19.82
Dane Tomas
Um, I'm so plugged in.
00:24.17
calltocourage
How things going rather what's ah, what's news from down under.
00:30.25
Dane Tomas
Things things go pretty good I um launched a new thing earlier this year called esoteric entrepreneur academy we kicked that off pretty much on January first Thereabouts and
00:46.11
Dane Tomas
It's rock and a roll and it's basically somewhere between a mystery school and a business mastermin so people have been joining that and we've been delivering our first few teachings and rituals and so on and it's going real good. It's taking a little bit of bandwidth to set up so that's my main. Main gig at the moment I'm shopping to buy a house I might be buying a house very soon and ah I've found something pretty nice that I will be looking at tonight. So I've looked at a lot of houses. But the the best prospect so far is um, I'll be visiting. It.
01:09.21
calltocourage
How's that going have you found something.
01:22.32
Dane Tomas
This evening and checking it out so sending good good juju towards that and ah beyond that you know just been been doing a fair bited physical training more focusing on strength training and that sort of stuff these last few weeks and. Trying to eat lots and I know have have a good life and really in a sort of foundations mode this year I feel like I'm building building stronger foundations in in every area of life and it's so far so good.
01:53.79
calltocourage
Share how your physical training practice is going. That's been a dance for you. You have times when you're super good at it and times when you you feel like you're not with it right? I think we've spoken about that before.
02:03.10
Dane Tomas
Yeah, it's like you know I didn't I didn't grow up athletic I grew up either a nerd or then later on a you know drug taking Rebel So my you know my models of physical health were not I just wasn't.
02:20.56
calltocourage
And.
02:21.64
Dane Tomas
And just didn't think it was Cool. You know I was ah was either a sci-fi fantasy nerd or later on musician and artist and it was just more about drinking and taking drugs and staying up late for you know for the first twenty years. Um. So when I started Actually it happened for me. It has somewhat changed. It has somewhat changed. Um, it really started for me when I I took myself through the spiral the the healing process that I created in 2012 after I went through it.
02:39.40
calltocourage
Ah, has that changed.
02:58.85
Dane Tomas
It's like I had a different window of opportunity. You know I sort of was able to look at my life and some of the areas that I was already skilled really sort of just skyrocket overnight but the other thing that happens when you clear up your baggage is areas that. You kind of suck become a little more you you at least have the confidence to look at them. You know so it's like oh je I'm kind of a I'm kind of a 2 out of 10 in this department. That's that's not very good. Um, so the journey since then has been has been gradual and has been kind of on and off but you know if I look at it.
03:25.74
calltocourage
I have.
03:35.50
Dane Tomas
From my thirty s there's still been an upward trend line of you know my 44 year old self could could kick my 34 year old selves us so that's probably a good measure. Um, yeah, so more like I've been training Jiji 2 on and off for years. But. this year I decided to sort of reset and just focus on strength and mobility and really I think what I'm doing I did a lot of magical work last year around and and the end of 2021 around kind of connecting to who I want to be in the next twenty years you know and I got a lot more clarity around that and 1 1 aspect of that was just ah, just a higher level around strength fitness body and so I feel what I'm doing is it's a bit different. In that there's more meticulousness to it. There's a more There's a lot more ah micro structurecture around all my goals this year actually like I just spent a lot of time over December mapping out what had worked well in 2022 what had not. Sort of shows my top priorities and then really reverse engineered where I want to be by the end of the year. What does that look like quarter by quarter what does that look like month by month and then what does that look like week by week and particularly for the areas where.
05:06.89
Dane Tomas
I I wouldn't I'm not masterful I feel like I've learned a bit about how this body responds to training like I've come I've come away. But for the for some bits of it I was just referencing with a couple of friends of mine who are strength trainers who have good. Results background in that area not just for themselves. But for others and kind of go up them to help me calibrate. Okay could I know you could shoot for more here. Okay, we're shooting for more there we should do for less here. Be realistic about this. You could you could up that but you know just that kind of mentality I think so. Yeah, I'm going to gym you know to to a normal person. It would not seem anything particularly crazy. But it's like gym 3 to 4 times a week a little bit of body weight stuff at home eating the first stage of my food food is one of my weakest areas or has been where I just fucking eat. Nothing or pig out on pieces and kebabs and drink bos and whatever so's I'm doing that in baby steps which is basically for the first couple months just just trying to hit protein girls. You know it doesn't matter if there's a little bit of junk in there. It doesn't matter. It's just like. I just need to eat enough to feel what I'm trying to do and then month by month we can sort of clean up. Okay, let's not get it from that. Let's get it from this. But yeah, basically what it looks like and feels like to me is I took myself back to baby steps and already.
06:33.10
Dane Tomas
Month I mean February right? I'm in month two and it's already like I can see the build starting to happen. So yeah, that's that's a little bit about how it looks.
06:41.31
calltocourage
How does the food part look are you cooking for yourself. Have you got someone cooking for you like how does how do you make that work for yourself.
06:48.19
Dane Tomas
Very not I don't cook for myself much I Basically my I started been like I'm going to do all these meal plans and all this stuff and something in my brain was like do not complicate this we we exactly. It's like look it's history. History has not been kind.
06:57.53
calltocourage
No, you not.
07:06.78
Dane Tomas
These elaborate plans. So basically the first thing I did was just hack breakfast. So I used to get a bunch of like bacon and eggs on toast or whatever I found a place down the road that does good coffee and they do like a nourish bowl and I get a fucking chicken breast and a couple eggs with it and it's like.
07:07.40
calltocourage
Um.
07:24.18
Dane Tomas
It already stacks the day in the right direction and then I notice the next things I eat seem to follow that and then I also found where I live Byron Bay is quite good for local produce right? There's a lot of little farms and little whatever this is once this is hilaria and I'm sharing this. This is one store they sell these like precooked.
07:24.59
calltocourage
I have.
07:44.30
Dane Tomas
Wrapped chicken breasts every day I buy like 2 or 3 of those and so lunch is like a fucking three hundred Gram Moroccan chicken breast by itself and you know a glass of water or whatever and it's like fuck I've hit my macros already I'm already there and then dinner is a bit more. Might have more carbs my you know I might be fucking chicken and rice or whatever or whatever. But basically I just my first hack was to find a few easy meals that readily available that I can rinse and repeat um and actually this is this is a hack that I've used in business as well. A lot. Ah, feel the empowerment in like taking the buy lower. You know it's like a reverse. It's like you know so like I'm going to cook 5 meals for myself. But it's like just assume assume you suck assume your level of capability here is the minimal. What is the quickest.
08:40.23
Dane Tomas
Most reliable way to get this outcome and it's like for the last month I've watched because I track my food in an app which I I like I'm good at that part I quite like shit like that which I know some people hate. It's like my stiffness pal and and such as that you know type in your food. It's got everything listed.
08:48.41
calltocourage
What are you using what app is it I cool. Yeah.
09:00.30
Dane Tomas
And it's like yeah I enjoy I actually enjoy that part because it's a little bit of a nerdy aspect for me of like oh fuck look I ate 200 grounds of protein today like I used to think it was not possible I used to just not have the appetite and then.
09:07.26
calltocourage
Um.
09:17.27
Dane Tomas
It's been interesting to watch it gradually shift into like that feels like I ate a normal day of food but compared to how I was eating across last year it's like there's a lot more nutrient dense food getting eaten and that's. That's the main you know stage one is just I just want to hit certain certain lifts certain body weight practices that are all pretty basic and it's and it's eating enough to fuel that pretty much and I'm doing like body scout I've got a body scan at the beginning of the year you know like the. Old percentage thing so I'll do that every month just got all my blood work and whatnot done. So I'm looking forward to going through that with my naturopath so it's kind of ah I kind of brought science to the table this year you know I brought a bit more science into and meticulousness into my approach and I also made it.
10:02.71
calltocourage
F.
10:10.20
Dane Tomas
I track my goals like very um, committedly and basically I just decided to put body as number one this year and business is number 2 and everything else areas that I'm already really good. They can be like 3 4 5 six seven because they're probably going to happen anyway with the new things.
10:20.20
calltocourage
Ah.
10:29.50
Dane Tomas
You know I'm doing new stuff in business. So I'm I'm keeping a real close eye on that anybody in the business I like that's the that's the plans for the year that's and everything and I watch myself. But there's a lot of other stuff going on. It's like no I don't get time for that. This is what we're doing this week you know so I I do feel like. That approach is works for me in other areas. So yeah, watch the space I'm gonna be jacked.
10:55.68
calltocourage
Ah, um, I love what you spoke about there which is something that I've taught as well with regards to the process of manifesting as well as goal setting which is set something that you can believe that you can actually reach like set a goal that you can reach and actually attain. To prove and develop the belief that you are the person that reaches these goals and I think a lot of our audience is men and they have this idea of like okay it's January the first I'm going to go from nothing to a bodyweight bench press and just yeah, it's just too much and you know burn out or feel like a failure when you don't reach it. So.
11:14.15
Dane Tomas
Hundred percent
11:27.62
calltocourage
Yeah I Love how you unpack that is that a similar approach to what you do for you said you use it in business as well.
11:32.80
Dane Tomas
Yeah I you know I Coach basically spiritual people in business is my main main niche and look one thing I see with people This is true of anything but I guess I have some experience with the business thing over other areas. Think that our ability to calibrate what we're capable of is one of the areas where we where we fall down in areas where we're not yet masterful. You know it's like in something that I'm really good at I can make a pretty educated Guess. Of an area that I'm going to stretch myself I can make a pretty solid estimate of what I'm capable of and I can do it. You know so I set a thing I achieved the thing and my brain goes Cool. We did that and then the next one I set a little bit further. Do it again and it gets done.
12:22.89
calltocourage
Yeah.
12:26.74
Dane Tomas
When people are new at something they tend to it's like yeah I think of it it I call it calibration or is the language that I use and I think of it like it's like our brains haven't yet been trained how to estimate realistically. And that can go both ways you know I can that can work in being really shy of committing you know, really like ah I'm I'm going to try to make $50000 this year I'm like at least shoot for like 120 or something like if we're going to bother fucking getting out of bed. Let's let's make it I'm gonna goingnna do 7 figures this year it's like have you have you even made 200 grand why would you think and you don't come from an entrepreneurial background or business. Okay, so I don't want to discourage you but let's just it would be the equivalent of like I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to be hitting like you know I'm going to deadlift double my body weight. It's like you're you're new at the gym right? like.
13:08.15
calltocourage
Yeah.
13:23.64
calltocourage
Yeah, find that Epi medium.
13:24.49
Dane Tomas
Let's see let's just let's assess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's assess what you're even capable of maybe you've come from an athletic background or you've had a spark have you've been sitting on your arts. So plus 10 years like what's where are you? So ah, one of the things I get people to do is just start to.
13:38.17
calltocourage
Ah.
13:44.16
Dane Tomas
Build maps of where they're heading test things out get and start to regard it all as data as well and I think you know we we make a plan we break it down to small pieces. We shoot for that first small piece say the first month and then we're going to get some data from the world of like oh that was. Was nothing I smashed that or oh that's not that easy and it's like okay and rather than me like oh no I can't do it. It's wrong. It's like cool what we got was data. You know you set your goals twice as high as they should have been. Let's bring that down and see if you can hit in February you see if you can hit that reduce goal and then build you know and and I think this is also a thing with team building. You know, like building plans that we know we're going to hit because.
14:22.86
calltocourage
Um.
14:33.95
Dane Tomas
Want everyone on my team to work towards 1 thing and I want us to get the feeling of we hit the fucking target we hit the fucking target for quarter one. That's so exciting that means we're probably going to do it again.
14:46.21
calltocourage
Ah.
14:46.51
Dane Tomas
Not this thing that a lot of people do where oh we nearly hit it. But it's okay, don't worry and it just builds like a a low level of trust in the group in the group organism because we're we're constantly fucking lying to ourselves you know so. But I think it's important to understand when you're and when you're new in an area. You won't be well calibrated. It's like a little kid trying to like run and jump and whatever like they fucks it up all the time they fall over. They hit their knees. They they miscalculate out far like you know like but after a while of having those bumps and scrapes.
15:12.21
calltocourage
Um.
15:20.61
Dane Tomas
We embody a more realistic like ah I could jump across that ditch or I could you know I could pull myself up there I've done it before. So yeah I think that's and the discouraging thing I think there's also this piece around like ego getting into our goals. You know. Like um, whether it's money goals or whether it's strength goals or whether it's whatever like there's this idea or like I've got to become you know I'm going to start up meditating so I'm going to meditate for 1 hour a day I was explaining this to a friend I'm like okay so you've never done that that's the equivalent of like me wanting to become a.
15:49.71
calltocourage
Rat.
15:59.10
Dane Tomas
Champion Crossfit Athlete this year like it's It's not impossible, but it's It's really it the fucking unlikely end of the scat. You're really setting your bar for like you know you don't you don't know how hard that is yet. But that's to do that every day for a year I'm not saying you can't but.
16:13.27
calltocourage
Rut.
16:18.66
Dane Tomas
It's going to take a lot and he's like yeah I tried it. It sucked them up. Cool let's get you doing 10 minutes meditation a day and use market on your calendar and if you miss 1 Well next week we set the goal to improve the average of how many meditations you did a day and then it just starts to be like a foundation of wow in January I had.
16:26.29
calltocourage
Ah.
16:30.18
calltocourage
Rat.
16:38.70
Dane Tomas
Twenty Two ten minute meditations it's like great What's your February goal it just needs to be more than that it just needs to be 53 you know and then in March we could start going. You know I can do 20 minute meditation sits and then before you know it, we start to be creeping towards. Ah, you, you sit meditation properly each day for like half an hour every day that's pretty cool. You built you built a real habit and yeah I kind of loved the science of that shit you know.
17:07.41
calltocourage
Yeah, for me, it has also to do with the fact that when you sit consistently to meditate you become a meditator you know and you're starting to be the person that meditates instead of the one who's like I'm going to be. You know that ego-driven goal.
17:15.69
Dane Tomas
Um, yes, yes, yes.
17:22.87
calltocourage
You are starting to be the person that hits their target that is consistently checking in with the data points that you spoke about. So yeah, it has to do with becoming the person that you that you want to be that leads towards the goal that you that you're going to auto.
17:30.20
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
17:34.62
Dane Tomas
Yeah November for me I was in Bali and I was like we just I'm just gonna become a guy who goes to the gym I didn't care what we were achieving in that I didn't care if we fucking fucking around between sets and if we don't you know like I I was just and I come back and eat a bunch of good food I'm like. I am a guy who guys the gym. that's that's proven you know that's ah the factual reality like yeah.
17:56.60
calltocourage
You spoke about that future state of um who Dan Thomas is going to be for the next twenty years so who who is that it's the same theme right? Your future stating it is who it is that you want to become.
18:07.36
Dane Tomas
Um, ah so.
18:13.37
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah, well the way the way this came through this you know quick story during Covid Twenty Twenty one we I live in Australia in the state of New South wales my parents lived in the state of Queen Queensland where I grew up and.
18:14.35
calltocourage
The.
18:30.79
Dane Tomas
Closed the borders here right? So we couldn't go visit people and I remember getting I hadn't really cared about the whole covid thing I basically ignored it for the first year I was like oh just work from home I'll just make music what who cares? you know. Um, when they closed the border I was just like fuck. Okay I'm trying not to get involved in this but that pissed me off you know and I could see myself in a process I wrote this song about it and then I was like all right. It's still. It's still moving through my system and I was like yeah. You're just thinking too small like if you're worried about that like I didn't even really want to go see them this week or next week so it's not even a real in real time. It's not even an issue for me. It's the idea that I cannot do the thing is annoying. You know and I just sort of started to fuck with my frames and was like look.
19:09.39
calltocourage
Um, yes, brad.
19:18.86
Dane Tomas
That just showed me I'm not thinking in big enough terms right now you know like if ah, you know if I had clear 20 year vision I wouldn't be worried about what's going on for this year it's highly unlikely that borders staying close the rest of my life. It's probably a political thing. Politicians come and go you know like I want to be a being that operates on um, a much larger timescale than this Monday in 1 year too anyway, that led to me just going cool who am I going to be in 20 years you know it was not quite I was 40.
19:49.60
calltocourage
Okay.
19:54.20
Dane Tomas
2 turning 43 around at time and I just rounded it up to like okay 65 year old self and it was this vision of like being a 65 year old. Do just smashing out endless pull-ups living on beautiful properties all over the world having my community of um. Wealthy entrepreneurial embodied creative spiritual folks that are all doing kick car school shit you know and there was just this it all kind of came together. You know it was like okay so this guy looks like that. Moves like that is surrounded by people like that loves like this is you know a big corbett was like just big standing so solid and feeling this core of like love it wasn't about who am I loving how you know what. Lover or partner it was like no no I am anchored in love and I have amazing people around me and I can travel the world and have multiple properties that is my network and my body is capable of these things which for a 65 year old is probably putting me in a pretty pretty. Unique slide you know in ah in a very high percentile of state of fitness. It's shit that I can't do now so I'm wanting to be stronger now than I am at 20 you know than I am at 45? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's like okay.
21:07.30
calltocourage
At 43 yeah
21:13.33
Dane Tomas
Right? I said this is this is this very specific Thing. You're asking Definitely can happen and I started to work with this. Not just as like goals on paper but as like just a a vision of this being of just like and and and then it suddenly gets a point by oh,, he's talking to Me. He's talking he he actually exists. And he's talking to me back down the timeline. Um, which is much more than like oh I've got to go I put a picture on my own vision Board. You know it was like no no this is this is version of me that exists and I'm going to start.
21:35.16
calltocourage
Um, yeah.
21:47.71
Dane Tomas
Talking communing close my eyes and have him step into me feel what he feels like listen to his internal self-talk feel this energetic of this a like a good. Head there's a heaviness there that is a good heaviness. It's like oh this guy is way more anchor than you. He's fucking. He's on fucking planet earth he's mystically connected but he's he's right fucking here and I was like okay I got this benchmark I got this and it's energetic transmission where so I did a course. Not long after I called light bringer and I got all of us to to call through our 20 years ahead of self into the first ritual and start working with that and it was fucking amazing and people start having real you know, like really visceral results. So. Whereas my sort of three years five years there's a lot more metrics this is much more of an energetic it's not like there's a list of shit that I need to tick off in the next twenty years as such. It's more like a visual and kinesthetic feeling. However, when I'm working with goals and planning that. That feeling definitely influences. You know, like why? Why is this year a year of foundations because it's like well I and there's certain shit that needs to be sorted out that I wasn't on track for that to be that guy. You know it's like ah.
23:13.37
Dane Tomas
If you just wrenched and repeat last year. That's not going to There's not going to move us towards that in any tangible way. But if we would add in these priorities I e strength and body these priorities getting the business in a certain level of order this house buying that would be definitely the moves that. Would align with him I also um took on a a relationship coach this year who was awesome. You know I'm someone who's a friend of mine who I just respect her work in that area and that's been killer too and I just did it almost the fun. You know I wasn't experiencing anything bad in that area. But I was like there's room for in turn particularly my relationship with self and and an unpack of how I relate. Um and now that we're a couple months into it I'm like oh this is also aligned with that. Vision of that guy. it's about how I love you know it's it's not so much about this person or that person outside of me. It's about yeah how I relate how I love how I navigate my communication. How I navigate my erotic connections. How I read navigate partnership etc and it feels like from the first section I was like fuck this is more key than I thought it was because this wasn't an issue that was you know suffering or you you got here.
24:34.50
calltocourage
Um, so what we yeah, what were you noticing there. What came up that made you think about that like I know you've just been through like an interesting dance with your with your marriage and is that one of the themes or is it.
24:44.50
Dane Tomas
Um, I mean yeah, it kind of wasn't because you know the marriage my partnership with Mia is in ah, is it in a really good place. You know we came back together in Australia and just felt um.
24:49.50
calltocourage
And the stuff around that.
25:02.41
Dane Tomas
Spent about eight weeks in and out of each other's space staying in each other's houses and then being separate and coming back and that sort of just recalibrated itself and you know she's in Bali right now and heading probably towards europe she doesn't know she's out in the world just traveling and that feels good. You know that feels like.
25:19.59
calltocourage
I.
25:21.86
Dane Tomas
Um, very just centered in in love. Um, but basically in the unpacking of I of our 2022 you know I just I just looked over. You know we have always been open.
25:41.13
calltocourage
Open as an open relating rut for those that? yeah.
25:41.15
Dane Tomas
So I looked at some of the data. Yeah yeah, so we've we've been. Yeah, we've been open relating since since day one and and have a particularly independent relate like we' we're completely free, pretty pretty much you know in the way we operate now that sometimes has look like. We live together and a happy couple sharing everything in a house and and sometimes it's like okay you're over there in the world I love that for you and it still feels really good but we took we took a few you know the couple. Bubble the relating the whole the whole package took a few hits over the course of 2022 particularly with being locked in 1 place and you know just various other stuff and some of the ways that I navigated other relationships and other dynamics. You know could have been better like we we've had a relatively awesome run of of um, long-term open relating especially compared to a lot of other people but I got to see from a when I looked at it from a distance. We know where where um. Where avoided patterns are playing out where addictive patterns this this is what led me to actually the coaching seeing addictive patterns around sexuality that were very subtle. It's not like I'm jerking off the pown 5 times a day or I'm having interactions that aren't loving or that I'm not.
27:14.18
Dane Tomas
Don't feel good about like I feel very good about the kind of interactions that I've had in my life. However, when I step back from it I'm like there's still in key moments. There still can be an outsourcing to others that creeps in you know and um.
27:32.30
Dane Tomas
So a lot of the the first conversation in the relationship coaching with you know, classic stuff of going into like childhood patterns. Um that I would rescue my mom as a kid you know like and and then I can sort of see how that that can tend towards a sort of leaky. Energetic blueprint of like needing connection or being being. Emotionally you know Ah yeah rescuers and it can that can plug in a lot of different ways. So and anyway basically I just I learned I realized it was time for an overhaul of my internal.
27:53.71
calltocourage
Let's go a.
28:07.62
Dane Tomas
Relating patterns and and I would say they were still like you know a 5 or 6 out of 10 but they're not a 10 out of 10 you know they're not fucking. They're not this guy who sits there emanating love securely attached with himself in connection with people. He cares about and feeling like this field of. Um, beautiful grounded. Love that's that's that's what I'm saying I want right? So it's like cool. Let's let's upgrade or examine anything that does not support that to be a reality.
28:42.70
calltocourage
Share a little bit about your dance with Ista you've been in for a while and then out for a bit and now it seems like you're stepping back in what are you? where are you with regards to your relationship with that sort of mystery school I know you talk about your work being a mystery school. What how do you feel about it at the moment.
29:00.85
Dane Tomas
Um, I I mean I'm in the mystery with this stuff which is often the case. So I I feel a strong resonance with. The work of Ista and and many elements of the culture of ista you know I ah, um, you know I've done I've done the fucking train I've done like I'm teaching I'm co-facilitating um in may in Greece. With Jaine Marie and and rath who I love dearly both of them and I love being in geneine trainings particularly I my 10 final one and it's the Hyde in temple and other offshoots of those things have been very influential. On me over the last sort of 6 or 7 years particularly working with erotic energy bringing iras into ritual. Um, but also building a tribe of people. Ah the world that I really really love you know like I probably wouldn't know you if I haven't been in this step There's a there's a lot of that in my life like that that web has really um, connected me to a lot of amazing people. So I've always had that that that part never wavers. But how much I want to like whether I want to teach or not is is kind of changes for me at different points and.
30:14.18
calltocourage
Um.
30:33.43
Dane Tomas
Ah, think partly, that's to do with my entrepreneurial journey like I you know I have have always had my own thing so I had the spiral institute for nearly ten years you know so we're running these fucking powerful trainings and you know 50 or 60 people come and. It makes good money. It transforms a lot of lives. It was a very important container so that completed now I've launched the ee and that is that is very much my primary priority you know like I I feel that. I love working with sexuality I love working with shadow integration the the really core parts of me and who I am but my particular area of focus is about power leadership money particularly in spiritual. Scenes which I think are fucking hopeless with those things you know they're just it's just not and not to shit on anyone but then those are not areas of strength amongst most spiritual communities. They're areas of suppression hiding inadequacy that you know they're just not developed those areas. So. That's my highest priority but I love being part of it is the field I love um, working with that group of people. It's yeah I don't it's like I don't know if I'll ever be done and I also doubt that I'll ever be.
31:58.31
Dane Tomas
Like teaching dozens of Ista trainings because it just doesn't one I get bored teaching the same stuff two you know the financial return isn't is just like not like you know I could be making 100 grand you know or whatever so that and 3 which should be really number. 1 is my own. I really I go to isab to do my own work and what I've loved about it is. It's one of the few places where I feel I can do deep work and be contained and two I go to support um the deepening of that work in the world because I do think it's. Incredibly valuable. Um, when I run ritual wherever it is I basically source people who've done is to level one and two because I know they could come and play in a higher level magical reality than people who haven't like they've they've had. Certain culture and mindsets and embody skills installed so I could work with them. You know? So yeah I love it I feel like I'll all always be plugged into that greater field. But my dance with how much I want to be involved with um delivering or teaching. Is is always um, an interesting one because there's just there's just other currents that run through me that are really strong that um tend to win out. You know, but then I'll see some amazing training and and with someone who's fuck I'm going to be there I'll be there, you know? and so yeah, we'll see how all that.
33:28.51
calltocourage
So with your view of ester fluck from the the semi inside where do you see it needing some some improvement. What's the next phase look like for Ista in your opinion luck from the information that you have.
33:29.12
Dane Tomas
Pants out.
33:43.60
Dane Tomas
Look I am I already spoke on this and on a podcast about this and it was It was a little bit um controversial. But ah so I will I will speak in in higher level terms I think.
33:50.70
calltocourage
Really.
33:58.11
Dane Tomas
Think Ista is going through kind of puberty at the moment. It's how I look at it you know and it if we think of it as a living thing or if we think of it as an organization you know it is kind of organism versus organization type of. Debate in the in the is the world. But I think that it's obviously both those terms of the same thing in my Opinion. An Organism is just a living organization I think it's trying to find its way in a new era. Yeah, and I think that requires.
34:25.26
calltocourage
Um, yeah.
34:35.64
Dane Tomas
Um, certain shifts and changes. But I Also this is not so much my opinion of what will happen but I also hope it it manages to keep its shamanic Essence Intact. You know So There's this dance between. Need to upgrade and reorganize a few pieces. But also if you become overly safety and meticulous. You know if you become overly protection oriented then you will lose the magic of what. What this thing is so it it has a dance to to find its way through I think in terms of you know the trauma-informed world quote unquote and the transformation-oriented world.
35:14.87
calltocourage
Um, I know.
35:26.92
Dane Tomas
They can be seen to be quite at odds in the in the world particularly pure in social media and particularly how people think and talk when they're invested more or in one of those ways of operating than the other you know, highly transformational people tend to think more about. Just the power of change and can brush over sometimes sensitivities or the trauma narrative but because they're more focused on you know, transpersonal themes and development of human beings as souls and whatnot. And then on the other side. The trauma informed model which is obviously gaining power in our world at the moment is very important and it's and like this's and there's some solid science that is amongst that but it also can produce people who are you know. A little obsessed with sanitizing everything and making everything perfectly safe and you know can can lean. It's really interesting because the the transformational model can can lean to being over over obsessed with sovereignty and can overlook the victim. And then the trauma model can lean towards obsession with group dynamic safety doing everything the right way sensitivity and can become Over-o obsessed with the victim and I think I think Isa is trying to figure its way through that at the moment and.
36:59.30
Dane Tomas
And very curious about how that's going to going to work out and I think you know look it was interesting for me to I had a dose of this inside 1 of my own organisms organizations inside the spiral like we we hit a lot of um. Global values shifts and challenges in 20202021 when black lives matter happened when when a bunch of things happened. Um, they brought out other ripples that showed up in our container and we had to work through a lot of a lot of different political issues. And identity type issues that as someone who'd been primarily coming from a personal development point of view. Um I was a very individualistic transformation focused person who just couldn't understand initially why. Especially in like 20162017 why certain issues around diversity inclusion, safety sensitivity etc would keep coming up and I'd be like what are you guys talking about like use the fucking tools click click clear your shit get on with it. You know we're empowered beings and then only after multiple repeat things. Did I start to be able to track. Okay, this is actually a thing. Um, even though I don't necessarily relate to these concerns or I don't necessarily agree where a certain person is coming from at some level we need to accommodate and integrate these needs and these values in this thing.
38:29.93
Dane Tomas
And you know ultimately it it was part and parcel of what led to me deciding to complete with that organism because I didn't really want to run um a healing modality that had to be particularly sensitive around all kinds of issues when you know I would do something. Silly hilarious like make a podcast called tanttra made me gay and then I'd have all these complaints from like you know, um, someone who's working with like the the canadian lgbt q community feels that Dane Thomas is not a safe person and the spiral is not safe and I say oh like that. That was actually a highly nuanced and caring conversation that we had I just gave it a bit of a spy title and then suddenly I mean this kind of friction wars around what I consider political correctness. But what someone else might consider just being educated about certain. Issues. so I've so I've tasted what I'm trying to say is I've tasted um, complex leadership dynamics traversing you know changing territory in spiritual organizations before and I think ista is journeying that right now and. It's also interesting and it has a large that has had a largely decentralized organizational structure so it can be It's not simple to go cool management has decided we will now do this like it doesn't work like that. So. That's also something that people outside of it.
40:03.11
Dane Tomas
Maybe struggle with but I also see people in Ista doing a lot of work to put processes and pieces in place. So yeah, that's there's a lot there. But I think it's going through a um growing.
40:14.17
calltocourage
Um, now.
40:19.90
Dane Tomas
Some challenges slash growth period Slash who knows what direction it's going to mutate into.
40:28.29
calltocourage
Yeah I think in many ways the way that they had such a loose structure really allowed it to be able to flourish they it didn't have ah a specific hierarchy or a traditional model that allowed it to just really grow and flourish and um I think a lot of that had to.
40:39.34
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
40:42.26
calltocourage
To deal with its extreme growth like it's had the ability to really just be able to pick up and Blossom wherever there was an opportunity and it didn't require permission from anybody and it didn't require approval and so yeah I see that and then I resonate with exactly what you're saying I've sort of been seeing it secondhand through.
40:55.49
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
40:59.92
calltocourage
Through errormits involvement. But yeah, there's definitely 2 polarities the sort of spiritual transformation of polarity and the trauma informed make sure that we know everything that's going to happen before before it takes place so that I can make an informed decision before I go into this container and. Too much of 1 takes away from the other.
41:20.23
Dane Tomas
Yeah, and I mean to even want to get into from a spiral dynamics perspective. You know I know anyone's familiar with spiral dynamics. It's a system that tracks emerging values in culture and. The sixth level of spiral dynamics the green meme which is really about equality sensitivity. Diversity justice is really getting louder in the whole world at the moment this is across all kinds of different issues and so. That particular level of consciousness is all about the group. It's all about belonging is all about marginalized people the most hurt people in a given category getting the loudest voice. It's all about um the deconstructing hierarchy. It's you know. And so that that pendulum is swinging hard in the world right now and there are levels above it that but the ones I'm more interested in to be honest, like high-level systems and flow state sort of based thinking and then beyond that working with energetic fields and working with with kind of. Planet as 1 thing but those levels we're not in those as a culture you know we'd been in a capitalist model for a couple hundred years and now this kind of um equality sensitivity social justice model is kind of.
42:53.53
Dane Tomas
In some ways wreaking havoc with many existing structures and ways of doing things you know like I'm I've been on Tiktok lately getting obsessed with the whole gender identity rabbit hole and just watching fucking just the endless. Battles between extremes of conservative. We should really need to maintain masculine and feminine and whatever which I somewhat agree with and and then depending on how far they take it. Don't agree with versus like gender's not even real. You guys. It's all made I'm like okay you guys this is a little too far and then there's like you know. Lesbians getting out of the queer movement because they're saying it's been hijacked by mentally ill people who want to identify as like fucking foxes and lizards and you know whatever and it's so basic. But basically what's happening is um, this is what Jordan Peterson talk is talking about when he goes on about the postmodernists and whatnot. There is a different level of consciousness gaining power in the world at the moment and it is the level that seeks to um.
43:46.98
calltocourage
Um.
43:59.86
Dane Tomas
Empower the disempowered and it is the level that is primarily oriented around people's sensitivities being recognized and that for better or worse is gaining power planetarily and every organization corporation group of people tribe communities can have to deal with that. Probably in different shapes and forms. But but in some shape or form they will have to accommodate and learn to deal with that you know and so whether it's all that pronouns has to be presence at the beginning of the conversation or whether it's you know is this workshop trauma formed or whether it's some other thing like. Inclusitivity Diversity etc will be demanded and and that will have come in intelligent forms and that will also come in completely fucking toxic like ego trip forms and people who are leading different things. We're going to have to learn to dance with that stuff and it's. Super complicated.
44:59.50
calltocourage
In terms of the spiral like what's the way through from this particular level like what's the what's how do we penetrate this particular sort of cancel culture sensitivities that you're talking about.
45:09.35
Dane Tomas
Um.
45:15.56
Dane Tomas
Yeah, it's such a. It's a really intelligent question and so this this level is called Green as I'm as I've kind of named it. Um the level above Green is yellow and Yellow is the first of The. Second tier. Um Memes. It's the first of the second tier value systems are different in that they can navigate all the other value systems. So before that whatever value system you're in you think that's the right one If you're an achievement guy which is like orange you're like I fucking got what I work for. Deserve it fuck off. These are my Results. You know if you're green, you're like oh my God That's your privilege talking. You know you shouldn't even be Speaking. You're a boy or whatever but and everyone should have a voice so that's the healthy version of it. Everyone should have a voice if you're Yellow. You start to be able to recognize actually all of these different.
46:00.45
calltocourage
Ah.
46:11.69
Dane Tomas
Value systems are relevant at different times depending on context. So we might be may might be non-hierarchical. But if you're like the fitness expert and there's 8 of us want to get fit. We're going to defer that Gareth is going to lead this because he knows more. He's got results. Let's just. Listen to him he can design the program. Well let's just follow him. But if it comes to like I don't know Rewiring the house of electricity were going to get the electrician guy to do that. We're not going to get you to do it because you're good at fitness right? So we we have this intelligence of knowing when to when to have hierarchy not have hierarchy.
46:32.50
calltocourage
Um.
46:48.49
Dane Tomas
1 thing that happens with this stuff with this green meme stuff is it gets stuck in fighting for consensus or pushing for consensus. So like everyone has to have a voice. We're all, we're all sitting in a circle. Everyone gets to speak. You know? Okay, great. But this is going to go forever and we're never going to get consensus. Um, what happens in green meme cultures I have quite a few this is when they people come to me. They're usually they've been. Say an artist activist type person who has lived in green for quite a few years and they're starting to get sick of it. They're starting to realize it has limits and that actually gets super toxic and then they start looking for other things. Um this happens. This has already started to happen with like.
47:33.58
calltocourage
Are.
47:40.91
Dane Tomas
Um, with things like the me too movement right? like it. It came in it was a super important thing to happen. Um, but after a year or 2 we already could start to see the pattern of oh this thing is starting to get weaponized like just because.
47:59.43
Dane Tomas
Someone says something is sexist or misogynist or whatever it doesn't mean it necessarily is now we have to start being more nuanced So The the green meme itself will basically push people to being eventually being able to think in a more nuanced way largely because of its unfortunately largely because of its dysfunctions. So. People will try to put you know? Okay, people have complained so we've installed an ethics board and we've got a safety officer and we've put fucking cushions and all the corners of the tables and we've you know, got an emotional support animal and we've got this. We've got that. It's like yeah they they still hate. You. They're still crying and eventually this will cause like ah that's not the answer like this isn't fucking working um or some of this is working but we need other things as Well. We need other things as well. So yeah.
48:39.33
calltocourage
And.
48:57.99
Dane Tomas
I think it's a pretty crappy answer because the world hasn't really dealt with this properly yet none of us have really evolved out of it but basically over oversaturation of a certain level will will get very acquainted with its pitfalls and it pushes us to somewhere else but like. The previous level was the orange meme which is basically capitalism and science right? It's the it's the opportunityfocus meme I mean also we don't grow out of them completely. We build on top right? So it's not like as we move into this era of sensitivity. We throw away our iphones and nobody makes a profit in their business. And nobody wins at sport or anything like that anymore. It just becomes yes, that's we built that and now we have to make sure that everyone is included and everyone is safe and everyone's sensitivities are addressed. You know and and everyone belongs we build that and then eventually becomes yeah but 1 else is there? um.
49:37.35
calltocourage
Red.
49:55.28
Dane Tomas
The Yellow paradigm is is essentially obsessed with information flow flexibility of behavior and learning So What happened for me during. My spiral the spiral institute as we as we went through a green Meme Social Justice Installation period and I decided to basically the best way for me to serve that was to get out of the way was to not be the person in charge because I'm not that even if I'm personally becoming more inclusive in this and that I'm not. That character in the organization like I made the thing there's always going to be a power imbalance as I sort of started to step out of that role. It was like my yellow opened up and my yellow is like cool. You have infinite possibilities. What do you want to do. What drives you, you've got some money in the Bank. You've got free Time. You've you're in in a good place in your life. What would you like and it's like the the yellow frequency is that Well I want to learn I Want to understand more things I want to travel the world I Want to so there is there is a piece in there that is like.
50:59.71
calltocourage
Um, just just.
51:06.42
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah flexibility flow context. It's it's a meta thinking model right? So my my fucking dream would be that after we cook in this for a little longer. We start to pop into a more sophisticated model. So say we're inside an organization. When the yellow starts to emerge. It can go through all the levels and go see this thing we do here at the tribal level. That's really good. We should keep it see this thing we do here at the traditional level with our structures and our rules. That's good. We should keep it. We should change this bit see this capitalist part. We need a little bit turn that up a bit a little bit more. Okay, see this green meme thing. It's a gut out of control. We need to bring it so the the yellow is almost able to fine tune the other levels like it's playing an instrument. You know it starts to recognize. We need all these fucking things. The reason this thing came in so aggressively is because we were lacking in it for you know. hundreds of years you know it's like well the feminist thing should have never happened. It's like dude that was literally always going to happen like there's a structure that's been there for you know, hundreds of years that is imbalanced eventually. It's going to get popped but it's gonna maybe become overactive for a while well like you know.
52:04.60
calltocourage
Ah.
52:21.50
Dane Tomas
You're a ciss white man you should shut up. You know it's like okay is that that we gonna stay this level like is that is that our end gameme or is that is that a pendulum swing that eventually we need to bring back into Harmony and order so Yellow is the ability to to look at all the levels together.
52:36.60
calltocourage
And then what's a what's abovely yellow. What's the is there I don't know the spiral.
52:39.57
Dane Tomas
Complicated answer I know so Turquoise is above Yellow and Turquoise is very fascinating to me So Turquoise Incidentally these levels alternate between self group self group self group self group the whole weight. So. That's why it's a spiral because the patterns. Repeat at new levels of complexity and Sophistication. So Yellow is once again individualistic but it's individualism that includes inclusivity and it includes success and it includes tradition and it includes so.
53:03.19
calltocourage
Um.
53:15.50
Dane Tomas
If we think of yellow as a high level systems way of navigating the world and I don't just mean like computer systems like but just an ability to look at our behavior in a systems way turquoise is more holistic so it starts looking at the planet as one entity. It starts to. Um, deal rather than information flow in the yellow sense. It starts to deal with reality in the in the sense of dealing with fields of energy so it can hold a lot more information it it has a sort of embodied connotation to it. Um. They're the main things that I understand about turkquos which I feel I have a little bit of in my life. But I'm I'm definitely not quite turquoise centered but I can work with it particularly in ritual spaces and you know the way I do business has an element of turquoise of like yeah I've got a business plan. But I'm also working with the field of energy of a group which I don't need to know what every person is doing right now I'm just I'm just holding an energetic field that they can all be inside. You know so it's quite profound. You know they and they they reconcile things. Yeah, but it also has a global awareness so they talk about turquoise first appeared on the planet in any real amount when after we went to the moon because we had this almost experience of human consciousness stepping out of the planet and seeing the planet as 1 thing be like ah you know.
54:44.98
Dane Tomas
How can you be racist if you've been to the moon you can say oh we all live. We're all from the same place. What are you talking about? like? yeah yeah, yeah.
54:49.19
calltocourage
Perspective right. So.
54:56.84
Dane Tomas
So if we don't all get cancelled and we don't all die. We might make it to the into these levels in our lifetime that would be cool.
55:06.36
calltocourage
Amen when we when we last had our conversation you shared some really beautiful stuff around the journey that you had with your friends passing last year can you yeah
55:19.45
Dane Tomas
Um e.
55:21.51
calltocourage
For those that didn't quite get it at the beginning Dan and I recorded an hour and 20 minutes of a podcast before I completely disconnected and so this is the second take in that. Yeah I just want to get a sense of what what came from that for you. What were some of the the challenges of seeing our mortality in such a. Close way like because I don't I don't have that reference point in my world yet like I'm intellectually I understand we're all going to go everybody I know at some point is going to die and it's been sort of distant family like a friend from school and grandparents and so I still realize I haven't got that reference point that you.
55:52.60
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
55:56.40
calltocourage
We're so good at describing in the last call.
56:00.30
Dane Tomas
Ah, yeah, probably my closest male friend or 1 of my very closest male friends just passed at the beginning of 2020 still in circumstances that are not entirely clear. Very weird. Circumstances but and actually where I'm living now on this river where he was living was just further up right? at the end of this river so I'm back in that that area and yeah it led to a lot of changes in my life. It led and it it started firstly. With just shitty grief and pain like that was just it was a tough I'd say a tough few months I'd say I reckon it was two or three months and it was also the same exact time covid hit here and we we did our first lockdown around it. So I lost. My primary coping mess mechanisms of I go to the cafe where I journal my feelings and then I go to the gym where I kind of transmute my feelings into something else that was I had a good groove going around that time and it was like yeah you can't go to those places it's like okay my friend just died can't go out to the places that I go to every day I don't have a home gym and the supply chains are not working so I'm ordering all this stuff online ended up coming like four months later or whatever. So I fucking did a lot of moping around like I just hardcore. We got a projector I watched a lot of movies.
57:30.17
Dane Tomas
Ah, drunk a lot of boutique beer I got an appetite for you know and just eight I just went into like I can do whatever I want because my life sucks and I deserve to just fucking. You know, have my coping Mechanisms. So. Stay up late and watched movies a drunk beer and was pretty moy um and kind of life went on with this heavy fucking thing there I remember doing sales calls crying in the bath you know day after I was no point canceling everything like what's it going to fucking.
58:05.38
Dane Tomas
Man's going to sit here I'm looking so I just sat there and cried and I made a call close the deal. Okay I'm gonna hang on boom cry some more next one it was like you know I didn't really know how deal with it anyway, it really. Was a deep medicine in a way and I don't mean this to trivialize this the sucking part like but on just a basic level. It really sucked particularly it for at first and then I started to try to work with it and I don't. I'm not don't want to portray this of that I did this gracefully or whatever like when I could sometimes in some moments I would do a bit of movement I would do feel into it I would try to really be with the pain and it really brought. A reality to my spiritual practices and beliefs was one of the things that happened over over several months like because.
59:09.50
Dane Tomas
For for one I was getting annoyed with how a lot of my spiritual community was dealing with Covid. You know there was a lot of um, unrealistic and immature stuff was revealed around. It's not even real so you know we're not even going to do it I'm like what are you talking about. Didn't cancel that event like if it doesn't matter what you believe in this this thing is happening and it's like oh we're just gonna We're just gonna like it'll be fine. Andybra Friend's flying into some event and and they're all like what's happening I'm like they think they're still running it and they'd cancel it like the day before or whatever so there was this whole thing going on and it was. It was strange for me because I could track something something off in the spiritual community even though I Love these people and the deaths moving through me started to really open up this inquiry around like okay, it's like the universe got okay Motherfucker. What do you really Believe. You know because I'm might where is this.? He's his guy's dead I Fucking can't believe that he is dead and I could see my mind starting to sort of throw up bits bits and pieces scraps of different religions that I might have half believed were like okay well maybe he's here. Maybe this has happened I'm like the deepest part of me was like you have to admit, you don't fucking know you don't this is Beyond. You know you're so talented and clever and you can manifest your life and shape what you want here's something the hugest thing and and I have no control over it.
01:00:40.50
Dane Tomas
Almost like you know if you go out surfing or swimming and you just get smacked by a huge wave. It's like mother nature's looks like yeah just remember you're really small and I'm really big and you're not in charge here. That's that's what it was like an ego slap of this do it was like ah yeah, you.
01:00:52.12
calltocourage
Ah.
01:00:58.56
Dane Tomas
Wizard Harry You can create whatever you want, but just remember there are certain laws of this dimension that are that are outside your control and I really went through gradually a lot of my assumptions about life and was like I need to drop.
01:01:04.55
calltocourage
Are.
01:01:17.84
Dane Tomas
Morally I can't I can't be walking through life thinking like I know all this stuff like that's the height of arrogance you know and particularly in spiritual can well you know in Buddhism this happens or in shamanism this is is like look a lot of that is a bunch of borrowed shit that you've. Taken into your mind to help you deal with the fact that we're all going to fucking die you know and it's like that that really exposed which is not me really like I still value all these different traditions and teachings and so much amazing stuff. But I started thinking. How much of human culture is designed just to avoid the inevitable realization of death you know from from heaven to junk food to this to the mindless scroll you know a lot of it.
01:01:59.50
calltocourage
Um, yeah.
01:02:10.48
Dane Tomas
It serves to hide from pain and make us not have to deal with the depth of that realization and I just decided gradually to not I'm not going to do that I think it's cheating you know I think it's and you're going to have to deal with it anyway, each each program and this was it said after the first wave of my ah my. Really dear brother who I thought I would be hanging out with for another thirty or forty years is is gone that was really hard for my mind to like grasp and it was particularly hard because it was like no this isn't this isn't the right script. This is the wrong. You've. The wrong character in the story like that dude is meant to be a main character in my life for a lot longer like it doesn't does a compute if someone I owning a bit know would have died that would be more okay because they're not a main character I only care about them a little bit. You know invest like fuck not that person I need that person for this.
01:02:46.76
calltocourage
Right.
01:02:57.67
calltocourage
Right. I have.
01:03:03.61
Dane Tomas
But this story to go on. You know, um, once that moved through I remember beginning this really dark realization of like yeah you know everyone else is going too right? like you know your wife your other best mate. Parents obviously likely before that you know parents are and I was just like oh fuck this isn't unless I die first I'm going to have to deal with this a lot more times and and I was like this second wave like oh gross, you know, like you said.
01:03:29.80
calltocourage
Again and again and again. Yeah.
01:03:38.75
Dane Tomas
Obviously I was aware of that my whole life on an intellectual level people are going to die but to experience it and then they experience a second thought of like yeah like this could not and not only other people can die. This could happen to anyone at any time and I just been but feeling sick of this like fucking for a while you know like. Ah, be at breakfast and me as jumping in their car to go to an appointment I'd be okay, be be careful and she'd just be like look at me like oh and I'm like fuck that's not I've never had that vibe like it was just in me of like fuck. Anyone could go. You know like this is really terrifying and. And really actually started to hit me deeper in the heart of like you. You know you better Love people or like the people that you do love. Feel it work would be in it like live it. You know you know you can't be an absent-minded like oh yeah I fucking care about you? Oh you're dead Oops didn't forgot to tell you like you know that really went through and I think the the other big thing you know I wrapped with this thing is like.
01:04:38.75
calltocourage
Are.
01:04:49.19
Dane Tomas
It really gave me a high degree of ruthlessness around purpose. It's like this certain shit that I'm here to do and you know like I coach people who are scared to fucking post the video on the internet you know and it's like that's not people. Looking at you is not the risk here you know or to live back to oh getting canceled. So What some people are going to talk about you mean in a group is that what you mean is that what it is. They're not goingnna kill you. They're probably not going to put you in Jail so that they're they're the.
01:05:19.93
calltocourage
And.
01:05:25.80
Dane Tomas
The real. The real cancellation is death right? Let's expand the real cancellation is death. Okay, that's the big one. All right? are they going to cancel cancel me then they're not going to cancel you. They're going to cancel you to death. Okay, cool am I going to go to Jail you're not going to go to Jail am I going to even lose my social media accounts.
01:05:40.27
calltocourage
Like.
01:05:41.36
Dane Tomas
Probably not. There's fucking all kinds of fucked up people still doing their thing online and it's not an issue. Okay so what does it mean it means criticism it means challenge it means people trying to fuck with you. It's like well okay is that it like let's. That's small. You know that's very small and that that moved through me Also the idea of like ah another big risk is.
01:06:15.17
Dane Tomas
Saying yes to shit and going down a whole path of working on things and doing things that isn't really the most highest truth of purpose that's from ah from um from a you know from of taking mortality I'm not sitting here thinking like its every minute every day but to taking mortality into the Agg equationsion.
01:06:23.79
calltocourage
Ah.
01:06:33.53
Dane Tomas
Time becomes precious and you know I remember going through like what are the things that I if I was a die at the end of the year I'd be sad I'd sad I didn't do it was like he didn't make any music he said you wanted to do that that really brought my creative timeline forwards like I've got to. Ep coming out. It's literally getting mixed and mastered right now it took ages but the death thing definitely helped me do that because it's like ah I can imagine dying and it's it's not going to be I've never had the love of a good woman I've had that I've never made money you've made money. You've never want to fight you've won you've done these certain things. But did you create cool stuff. That's gonna you didn't you fucking wasted it. It's like oh I wanted to make music. You know, um, so it put it basically like a big sword came through my life and it and it really taught me a lot about perspective and what I value and I think. Think I've been a little deeper since then I think it brought a little bit more depth into my life. You know it's we're come into 3 years now and it's like okay things got more real got more deep and also I got less afraid of these small these small things like yeah like criticism. That's can't be a real barrier to doing what we want to do in life. It's it's really not a big deal. It's it. It presents as a big deal. You know it presents as a big deal because it triggers latent trauma and survival patterning I don't want to be thrown out of the group.
01:07:51.46
calltocourage
No.
01:08:04.69
Dane Tomas
Why don't you want to be thrown out the group because in the old school of the tribal structure you thrown out a group you fucking die in this world. You could probably find another group. It's not even that bad. There's billions of fucking people you know, but but but the nervous system doesn't know that the nervous system is like exile equals death and it's like you know.
01:08:13.71
calltocourage
The air.
01:08:24.57
Dane Tomas
Was a Facebook group. It's not even a real tribe of people. It's just some bullshit that you might not even be into in 8 years from now. So I think perspective is really great. That's you know I this is very doubleedged I wish that everyone would get a taste of the impermanence. Um.
01:08:44.34
Dane Tomas
That might serve them I don't I don't wish definite one's friends is not very nice. Um, but I but I wish for people to acquire that taste of impermanence sooner rather than later because I actually now feel like um. I would rather have gone through this at the start of my forty s than the first time be like 60 and be like oh you've got this old and you didn't fucking realize like that's um.
01:09:15.83
calltocourage
Yep, the practice of meditating on death is such ah is such a strong one and it's not something that we taught to do we completely push it out. We don't even think about it. It's something that's going to happen when we're 100 and everyone will die peacefully in their sleep and that's not actually true and sitting with the impermanence of life makes.
01:09:19.19
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah, yeah.
01:09:26.62
Dane Tomas
If.
01:09:32.34
calltocourage
Every moment precious if you can bring awareness to that and um, how's your dad.
01:09:41.71
Dane Tomas
Yeah, he's He's a right? You know he's um, my dad has had a journey with cancer. Um, he got through a round of all the all the things the chemo and the Radiotherapy and all all that kind of stuff. Um.
01:09:54.70
calltocourage
Letter.
01:09:58.58
Dane Tomas
He's not going and but going to be the the guy who's going to like Juice cleans and meditate to try out a big city know he's like a older working class Stoic Northern English old Dude um he has.
01:10:02.29
calltocourage
Okay.
01:10:11.82
calltocourage
Um.
01:10:15.98
Dane Tomas
Similarly been softened by this by Death. You know by the by the touch and the proximity of potential Death. He's a lot gentler and more more more overtly Loving. You know it's not really his roots and how he. Grew up is not you know I didn't grow up with a dad who's like I Love you son. That's not you know I I used to think it was gay this is growing up I used to think it was gay if dads were like affectionate with their sons was like oh that's Fucking. It's so Funny. You know I was just like what your dad kissed you on the cheek that's.
01:10:47.54
calltocourage
Wow.
01:10:55.30
Dane Tomas
This fucking weird you know and it's I'm laughing at it now and I wouldn't I wouldn't have it any other way, but it's been very sweet to see him um soften.
01:10:57.36
calltocourage
Um, ah hardly um.
01:11:10.23
Dane Tomas
And even though it's it's hard as well. You know and it's hard like he is like he still has cancer. It's less I don't know I don't it's what the technical situation is but it's he's he's able to function now he couldn't eat when it was first happening. He's all right? He's lost a lot of weight. He's very.
01:11:24.54
calltocourage
And.
01:11:29.98
Dane Tomas
A lot smaller of a guy than he was quite. You know he looks a bit more frail. Um, he calls me all the time which is very counter to the last previous forty forty something years. Um, yeah, he's okay and it's.
01:11:40.21
calltocourage
Let's say it.
01:11:49.91
Dane Tomas
That you know and it was the the I can feel like the James my my my friend you know that death which was very unexpected and felt very unfair. Um. Softened me up because when this happened obviously I was really sad and it was very heavy for me but I could feel. It's like a layer of resistance to death had already been taken like it wasn't like oh that's fine. It was hurt but it was like ah I'm i. Felt the wave of it and I was like I instantly know that I'll be able to cope with this. You know, um I'll you know it's still going to hurt but it there's this sense of like oh this is that thing again and it and it can it can pass through you. You know it. It can be a thing.
01:12:30.10
calltocourage
Um, and.
01:12:43.59
Dane Tomas
That passes through you and that's it's like okay um, you know and I imagine being old old I you know and maybe it's not the same for but I feel like I have worked with it and I don't you know I don't want to fucking tempt anything horrible like um I can feel the bottom of me like dain don't be making boastful. Spiritual Hubris comments I know that I will be working with this energy for the rest of my life. You know like and and as yeah, there's it's sensitive. You know, even. With my friend like we talked about the benefits of it I still miss him like I still miss my friend. Um, and yeah, even when my dad goes that's gonna it's gonna hurt. But I think we're I think as a family even we're all just.
01:13:24.80
calltocourage
Yeah, yeah.
01:13:40.48
Dane Tomas
Vibrabrating into that thing and you know he's like a stoic for probably for more than 10 years. He's been telling me how well one day I'll just get in a boat and I'll row out to see I'm not going to go to a home I'll just take some whatever and like what it gets. Can't do.. It's not a realistic plan. It' like that's what I'm gonna do so like and and like it's like okay all right. That's that's the humor slash I think he kind of means it. But I am I All right? Okay, That's you've made your a point that's clear.
01:14:08.82
calltocourage
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:18.30
Dane Tomas
Yeah.
01:14:18.52
calltocourage
Yeah, Bret thanks for sharing that it's ah yeah, there's tenderness around it before we before we go, there's 2 things I'd like to ask you one of them would be to share what you're doing inside the esoteric entrepreneur academy.
01:14:21.70
Dane Tomas
Yeah, yeah, it's not.
01:14:32.70
Dane Tomas
The he.
01:14:33.16
calltocourage
But through the lens of perhaps some sort of interview like I feel like it might be the type of thing that I perhaps could should consider and yeah, it might be an opportunity for me to to have the conversation that I would have with you anyway.
01:14:41.17
Dane Tomas
It.
01:14:47.74
calltocourage
While at the same time give you the opportunity to share what this program's about for those that might be a good fit for it.
01:14:54.61
Dane Tomas
Love it Very meta. Um, but let me give you the this the short spiel and then I'll ask you a couple you mean me, ask you some questions or did you mean you asked me some questions. Okay.
01:14:57.25
calltocourage
Ah.
01:15:02.85
calltocourage
So yeah, yeah, you I mean if I if I get stuck aloki but I'd like you to hear more or less about what it's about and give you the opportunity to to see where that'd be it.
01:15:09.66
Dane Tomas
Cool. So the premise behind that even the language esoteric entrepreneur is really about the meeting of spirituality in business. You know there might be my 2 longest term passions as I've mentioned. And I've spent a lot of time helping quote unquote spiritual people which is broad. It can mean embodied people can mean people with a higher purpose. It can mean people working in a specific spiritual niche. It doesn't really matter. It's just collectively anyone who is in some way working with spirit or a more inspired. Form of leadership who wants to be successful. You know this is my filter of like people that actually have some ambition. They want to lead a movement. They want to have an impact they want to have a financial benefit from what they're doing and they want to treat that as part of the spiritual part. So my experience has been. When we bring these two things together the esoteric and the entrepreneurial they start to serve each other you know, um, the inner work and we talk a lot about magic but let's let's just for now call it in inner work starts to fuel the entrepreneurial journey the more. Stuff we deal with them or we integrate them or we align the easier it becomes to get external world results on the other hand you know the mastering of the the numerous skills that are needed for even a good basic small business of.
01:16:44.90
Dane Tomas
Marketing selling organizing planning action taking leadership communication. You know all all those pieces also can be used to to ripen the person. You know it's not. I'm not just learning leadership to get my team to do what I wanted to do I'm learning leadership to become a better human being and to become more deeply aligned with who I really am so there's this trade where by pulling these 2 things close together. We get to grow in both of them. So really I built it for anyone who has. Ah, spiritual mission that they want to enact through a business like or entrepreneurial endeavor you know. So if you're building a charity. It's not for you. But if you're building a movement that has a business element to it. It's it's for you and so just the way we do it I have built. Ah, faculty of teachers ah wrapped around myself and the curriculum and it's based on three pillars the pillars are money mastery and magic money is how to make it how to manage it how to keep it how to multiply it. Um, mastery is about.
01:17:59.47
Dane Tomas
Navigating the higher level skills and the the more holistic skills. It takes to be a successful human as as well you know and and a leader and magic is both personal development. Type an in work but also ritual-based work so we do in addition to having lessons on marketing and planning and doing and challenges that get things happening. We also do sex magic every Sunday which is not a typical thing to do in a business mouth of mine obviously but we do ah ah.
01:18:32.96
calltocourage
Yeah.
01:18:36.90
Dane Tomas
Ah, sex magic ritual on Sundays called church and so the system of it is we get clear on our intentions. We take focus action but we also charge that up with ritual energetics emotion the unconscious mind as well and it it tends to make things happen a lot more. Smoothly. So that's basically what it is and how it works. Um, do you have any questions about that gareth.
01:19:00.55
calltocourage
No I've been watching it Unfold I haven't yet checked out one of the esoteric entrepreneur podcasts and the reason I framed the question this way was specifically because yeah I feel like I am a little stuck in in my current creation with regards to the flow of.
01:19:18.55
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
01:19:18.69
calltocourage
Specifically financial results into my world. Um, yeah, and um, yeah, perhaps this is your interview process to ask me some of the questions whether you feel like it. It could be a fit because I have been thinking about it since you started it. We touched it on it in the conversation that didn't make it through because of the laptop crash.
01:19:31.29
Dane Tomas
Are you.
01:19:37.00
calltocourage
But yeah I wanted to get a little bit more information about it and see how it you know how it could resonate and support the next phase of what I'm creating.
01:19:46.24
Dane Tomas
Yeah, um I mean if I start asking you questions they're gonna be like personal and involved finances and stuff like that. Do you if you want that on your podcast a bit. Yeah, um.
01:19:54.45
calltocourage
Yeah, godford. Yeah I'm happy with that. Yeah.
01:20:02.10
Dane Tomas
Where are you out in your business right now. What's what's working where are you at revenue Eyes What's how would you assess the current reality. Yeah.
01:20:09.47
calltocourage
I would say stuck I would say I have gone ahead and built the team and the content and the offer without it being proven and built a yeah I think I've got the structures in place having built a business before. At the moment I have a business that has higher costs every month than I have revenue coming in so the actual numbers are I have offers that have I've put out into the world that haven't been received and yeah I'm at a place where my revenue is pretty low. It's like you know a couple grand a month where I've got overheads of 3 to 5 grand a month and so.
01:20:33.93
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
01:20:44.91
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah attack.
01:20:49.15
calltocourage
That's sort of where I'm at at the moment and yeah trying to find a way to penetrate that and just realize where the block is I mean I'm taking responsibility that has something to do with me most of it. Everything to do with me and yeah wanting to to see how this could perhaps be.
01:20:55.43
Dane Tomas
A.
01:21:05.84
calltocourage
Penetrated through going to a container with you. So yeah, where I am is no.
01:21:07.54
Dane Tomas
Where would you would you like it to be if we if we magic wandered up in it and it's next year and you're like oh we crushed it. It was a good year I'm really proud of where we got to what how would that look.
01:21:21.21
calltocourage
120 grand would be would be a great result, especially coming from where I am at the moment. Um, yeah I have bigger dreams than that and I I see the market that I'm in and I I know my own ability to be able to do it would be would be more than that. But I think and that.
01:21:25.93
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah, yeah.
01:21:38.31
calltocourage
Boss sitting I mean even a hundred grand would be would be decent.
01:21:43.15
Dane Tomas
Yeah, so ten Ten K months as a benchmark will be where we're trying to get things to to get things moving cool. Um.
01:21:45.68
calltocourage
Yeah, exactly because I realize as well that also that also begets my nervous system to relax knowing that I've got like 3 to 5 grand a month of overhead I've now got 5 grand of profit. So that changes everything so like a ten Grand month would be a very solid start for me.
01:22:04.32
Dane Tomas
Yeah, um, who is your current target audience.
01:22:11.20
calltocourage
Men 35 to 45 Um, the version of me that was stuck in the world that I was in before I walked this path and they probably hear it all the time like the. The ability to be a healer inherently has the wounded healer as part of that journey like the part of me that was looping in addiction unaware of how I was creating my reality sort of stuck in the matrix. Um, so that that version of me as ah, my ideal client specifically meant.
01:22:41.35
Dane Tomas
Cool and what are the main offerings that you have to serve these guys.
01:22:49.40
calltocourage
We have a foundational program called core scaffolding which is a baseline understanding of getting clear and creating a solid environment recognizing that we are a product of our environment so it has to do with. Getting care on the plan and direction that you want for your life recognizing that your life is made up of various different areas recognizing that some of those as you said will be more aligned and you'll be crushing it in some areas where you might be short in others and having a way to be able to navigate that by creating the right environment through. Practices like understanding how thoughts become things like basic magic understanding how you set up specific things like your day like your engagements that you have with partners understanding the flow of energy through practices like self pleasureure a basic 1 on one to get Ki on.
01:23:29.39
Dane Tomas
Is is.
01:23:45.75
calltocourage
Where it is that you're going and the support to be able to get there. Um, it has 3 real elements and those are sort of internal external. The the environments is the external they internal is really ah, a deep dive into we run a deep dive but basically ah an initial dive into understanding. Um, the inner family tool. The inner kingdom is what we call it so recognizing what those are and where we self-sabotage with that and then the third piece is the container in which that gets supported so the offer includes a 6 ix-week training program where people are actually supported by other men. To hold space in a circle to say this is where I am this is where I'm stuck and I've built it that way because that's really how it supported me like being in circles you and I were in a mens retreat together. A lot of that healing and the the journey of the work is as much hearing what other people are stuck with as it is you know me trying to.
01:24:31.10
Dane Tomas
With you.
01:24:40.81
calltocourage
Do my own thing to solve it. So that's sort of the basis of the course scaffolding program. It's a $1200 offer and it's a six-week program and we're starting it in March we do it every single year um last year we did it with 8 people. Our goal is to have twenty this year so that's sort of the the medium-term goal with where we are. At the moment.
01:24:58.74
Dane Tomas
Cool. Yes, So there's a few pieces I'm just tracking kind of mentally slash energetically and I guess I guess where I'd be looking at this is all in the external like obviously there's a whole bunch of internal work that is that is also valuable. But. I would be curious about the the message to Market fit you know I I would not be just intuitively worried I feel like the quality of the delivery is probably very high I would be more curious about. How how accurate is the way you language to the people's needs of who would want this. You know that's what I'm curious about um so that's where I'd be looking at. Um, yeah, So we start to.
01:25:43.90
calltocourage
Has.
01:25:53.76
Dane Tomas
Kind of some of the things we work with. We do a lot like we we just rolled out a bunch of year planning stuff. You know what? how do we design? The business plan is inside our own body. How do we structure the year so that we have the right packages and the right aller at the right prices.
01:26:09.67
calltocourage
And.
01:26:12.40
Dane Tomas
And the next piece we're about to move into is how do we unpack the message so that it resonates with the people that we actually want and I think just this is just a gut feeling is like that's where I would. Probably start with you and the sorts of pieces I would get you to work through would be around unpacking who your avatar is and then talking to them and asking them a bunch. We'd give you a bunch of questions to ask them to unpack you know because it's It's like this.
01:26:40.77
calltocourage
Ah.
01:26:43.88
Dane Tomas
The dance we're doing is we want to bring through something that is true to us. So this is thing I did this fucking potatoes thing with my hands. There's there's me and there's I and this is what I want to bring to the world. This is what feels alive for me. These are my gifts is my learnings of the last sort of five or ten years whatever and then there's person.
01:26:55.83
calltocourage
Yes, I feel that part's clear for me yet.
01:27:00.68
Dane Tomas
That Plot feels strong right? And then there's person they're moving through the world. They have their own value system. They have their own languaging around their fears frustrations hopes desires and for them to catch a whiff of your thing. It has to come to them in the right language the right frequency on the right channel and platform with the right amount of regularity for that to start to build trust education connection to be like ah. Guys and and the messaging needs to be able to talk to that person's journey in a way that they relate to it. Um, which we are not as Humans. We're not great at this naturally because we have to construct the other and speak as though we're the other.
01:27:43.58
calltocourage
Ah.
01:27:54.77
Dane Tomas
And what what I instinctively want to do is tell you my thing is good. You should do it because X Y Z and it's like well I don't know if that's what you want I don't know what questions are sitting in your head right now you know and so what I need to do is unpack those questions and answer those questions and so that's.
01:28:05.70
calltocourage
Are.
01:28:14.28
Dane Tomas
You know there's many things but but really if we want 120 k a year. Basically we want some offerings tick you have some offerings. Um you know and then we want to sell the offerings and that's a mixture of marketing and sales marketing is messaging.
01:28:25.76
calltocourage
Yeah, perhaps.
01:28:33.59
Dane Tomas
And and selling is converting people who respond to that message. Um, would you if you were to rank those 2 Um, which would you say is weak or Otra so we basically put it in bare terms lead generation lead conversion so ability to get people interested.
01:28:34.93
calltocourage
Are.
01:28:52.90
Dane Tomas
Ability to convert interested people into sales. How would you rank each of those out of 10
01:29:00.43
calltocourage
Ah, because I haven't closed that many I would say lead generation is low, very low like 1 or 2 I need more leads I think when I have more leads my ability to close would be better because I know that I can't connect with somebody so I would say it needs to go in that order and.
01:29:07.50
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
01:29:13.39
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah, yeah.
01:29:16.34
calltocourage
But because I don't have enough leads I Actually don't know how good I am at closing yet. The people that have trained with me before have had a longstanding relationship with me and I've I've met them in person. So I think the lead generation and the messaging that leads to generating a lead needs some polishing for sure.
01:29:31.80
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah.
01:29:31.72
calltocourage
And yeah, and then I feel like I'd be able to close if I could have 10 sales calls a day I'd be in a very different place to where I'm at at the moment.
01:29:37.53
Dane Tomas
Yeah, yeah I would agree? Yeah so I think that's I mean that's probably where to start? Regardless, yeah, and I think.
01:29:46.22
calltocourage
So for clarity there's going to be that type of training How how does that unfold into my world as I join your program like is it.
01:29:53.43
Dane Tomas
Yeah, so so the way it's built. We have an online portal that has all all the all the good trainings I've done in the last year and a half so I started from there so we have magic of marketing and shamanic sales mastery. Both. Available in the portal. But also um, we're running new stuff all the time as well and we're doing I do something called business that saying which is basically you can come on and ask questions live. You can throw questions in the group. We answer questions directly so you.
01:30:17.46
calltocourage
10
01:30:31.64
Dane Tomas
Structured trainings on how to message create content. Be prolific zoning on your target audience's needs and language. That's the magic of marketing shamanic sales mastery is more about how to structure conversations to. Convert into closed deals into into that kind of stuff so between those two that's your attraction and conversion. Ah, but there there's going to be some fun like content creation challenges where I have Jade my techwitch runs say who who is the.
01:31:00.73
calltocourage
Cool.
01:31:08.15
Dane Tomas
Leader of techwitch school. She comes in once a month for a techwitch call. We just did the Instagram one. We'll do a tiktokk one next month so we'll be teaching technical skills. We'll be answering specifics. We'll be doing higher level planning structuring might get someone to do how to write copy with. Chat Gtp soon or whatever like that. But basically a lot of the business end of stuff is how to structure message and and then we move into the more inner stuff around how to connect with that and and kind of put energy into that as well. So that's a bit more the esoterics of it. But I think the.
01:31:43.64
calltocourage
And.
01:31:47.30
Dane Tomas
Starting point is yeah getting content going out on ah all available channels that talks to the right people in the right way so you're getting these little hey I'm just just I Really like that thing you wrote I have that problem. You know that's my inboxes are ah, never not full of those.
01:32:04.49
calltocourage
Right? That's working.
01:32:06.89
Dane Tomas
It's like okay seems like you in a way you're coming to me. Yeah, it's that's because ah, what ah what I talk about brushes across the issues that I know my client base have which whether it's the confidence of putting things out there or whether it's issues around you know. Um, financial mindset or whether it's just knowing how to do it or whether it's not enough time in the day or whether it's building a team or whether it's you know I know that's the stack of issues that every creative spiritual entrepreneur that I have dealt with over the last 5 to 10 years has. To deal with those and and it is probably at some point of their journey grappling with at least one of those right now you know when I do a post about overwhelm it'll be just have fucking 50 shares on it. You know and say okay so you guys are doing okay is how you bust overwhelm. Okay, this is about your hiding. You know the way you're. Showing up is you're half showing up but you're half kind of not showing up. You know why don't we get you? Yeah, you know so we'll throw in things like here's a 20 prompt to help you share your actual story in a way that is relatable like this is that's 20 videos and you've just got there. You know like it's.
01:33:06.42
calltocourage
Feel like that's me. Ah.
01:33:13.17
calltocourage
Right.
01:33:19.59
Dane Tomas
Yeah, that's the kind of stuff we're playing with a lot.
01:33:21.74
calltocourage
I Love it for I think it's great I Yeah I'll send you some some details after this because I think I've yeah I'm looking for someone to guide me in this path and I feel like I resonates a lot with what you're doing and I can feel you in your power with it and you've got the results to prove it and yeah I think it's.
01:33:24.59
Dane Tomas
To be continued.
01:33:41.72
calltocourage
It's the next piece for me to yeah, get care on what I'm being called to do and actually find a way to be received I think that's where I'm feeling a bit of frustration at the moment like I've put a lot of work in inverted commas in and put a lot of stuff out there but not being received can be kind of painful. It's like fuck man you know? Ah yeah.
01:33:52.70
Dane Tomas
Um, you you? yeah.
01:33:59.16
Dane Tomas
Um, yeah, yeah feel.
01:34:01.35
calltocourage
And I'm either going to penetrate it and make it work or yeah, put it down as an experiment that I did for a couple of years
01:34:10.69
Dane Tomas
Cool could could be in that bit where you're um, 2 2 shovels away from gold you know could be could be that stage.
01:34:15.40
calltocourage
Fuck I've said that to my team so many times we like we've got this snowball and we like shit we're probably quite close to the top and we've actually got to this place where we have a real sort of we've called it a failure condition I don't love the word but like I've been funding this project with crypto and the hope that you know. Feminine will somehow just appear and people will love it and take it and I've like I've spent money on some coaches but I haven't quite penetrated it and I've got to a stage where we're like if we at the end of this month don't make 5 grand like we're going to have to I can close this down or make a different decision and so yeah, there's this genuine sense of like.
01:34:43.10
Dane Tomas
Um, a.
01:34:51.21
Dane Tomas
Um, it.
01:34:53.75
calltocourage
We need to do something here and yeah I feel like this conversation is timely because I feel like this there's something that I need to just shift and I feel like it could come from being inside a container like the like what you're holding. So.
01:35:06.64
Dane Tomas
Yeah, yeah, we got some cool cool magical things happening but ah half because people are doing the right actions and half because something just becomes more aligned as well.
01:35:20.26
calltocourage
So brother I Really appreciate you taking the time to hang. It's ah good to get to the end of the conversation and not have it cut out halfway through and we made it.
01:35:27.80
Dane Tomas
Um, we made it.
01:35:30.50
calltocourage
But I love you? Um, where can people get hold of you. What's the best place for people to connect with your work and your magic.
01:35:37.37
Dane Tomas
Easiest places are Instagram that's at Dane Dot Thomas Thomas is T O M A S. there's no h in it and also the ee podcast on Spotify which is more like a you know a lot of my content going out is me like. Telling you what to do do this think about that look at that podcast is sort of a reversal of that where I'm just more sharing my internal thought process along the journey of my esoteric entrepreneurial part. So it's you know it's a. It's and it's a window into how I deal with things and what I'm thinking about and what's working and what I'm trying and that sort of stuff so those are 2 really great places to start. We share everything on Instal all podcast episodes things like this. We share little highlights of them. Um, and the e podcast on Spotify or Itunes is. People seem to be really enjoying that short episode I do 15 minute episode so they're nice and short. You can snack on them and um, you'll definitely learn some stuff about business but also about the inner journey as well.
01:36:38.24
calltocourage
Thank you brother I Can't wait till we can connect in person again and appreciate you coming on the show much Love bro chow.
01:36:45.73
Dane Tomas
Thanks Cara appreciate it.
