00:00.00
calltocourage
Hello and welcome to the call to courage podcast I'm your host Gareth Pickering and I'm joined today by Gareth Martin hello sir
00:09.27
Gareth
How's it my man Thanks for having me bad good to see your face.
00:13.73
calltocourage
Good to see you too it? Um, it required me actually asking you to come on the podcast in order to have a conversation with you I feel like we've been trying to chat for ages and we haven't quite made it made it work.
00:24.98
Gareth
Yeah, but I mean I have to take all responsibility for that. But to be honest with you like being a dad now and having a lot less time on my hands. Um I have definitely neglected like. Audio messages and and getting back to oaks and stuff so I do apologize. But.
00:41.13
calltocourage
Perfectly Understandable. How's it. How's it going being a dad talk me through that Journey Ra I Can only imagine it must be just like a complete shift in everything that's important in your life.
00:54.96
Gareth
But it's It's probably the most magical thing I've ever experienced to be honest with you. It's um, it's everything. It's much more than I ever sort of thought possible. It truly is just a blessing.
00:58.24
calltocourage
This.
01:09.44
Gareth
Um I like I love every moment of it. You know it's a complete like complete change to your life. Absolutely what everyone says oh you know your life change is completely. It's so true, but you know it changes in a magical way. That's for sure I mean.
01:14.14
calltocourage
And.
01:23.44
calltocourage
Like what do you notice? What's what's shifting it.
01:28.51
Gareth
I Think you if you are conscious as a parent you allow your kid to to be your teacher and they remind you of a lot of things. Ah you know, even the smallest things in life just to just to be so like. Present to to laugh at at nothing you know to to giggle to to smile like as much as possible like you know she just her smile is infectious but it's it's it's insane like and she just she just looks at you and smiles and you like you smile back instantly and um.
01:49.50
calltocourage
The.
02:04.57
Gareth
Yeah I mean you know and kids are also really good for bringing out your kind of like shadows and stuff like that. Ah you know a lot of people have unresolved issues and um if you want to resolve things or at least. Have them exposed have yourself a kid that's for sure because they they can definitely show you a thing or 2 that's for Sure. So but I mean it It really is just amazing. But yeah I mean I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep at some point in the future. But um, but you I wouldn't change it for the world.
02:20.72
calltocourage
But.
02:35.57
calltocourage
What do you? What shadows are you noticing coming up. What do you see in yourself that that's being reflected through maya.
02:42.55
Gareth
I don't I don't you know what I don't know if I've noticed any myself yet. Personally I'm not saying it's not going to happen. Um, only because I've probably been on this journey for 1015 years myself you know and um and I'm ah yeah so I don't really know yet.
02:47.48
calltocourage
Are.
02:59.99
Gareth
But but there will there will be something there that she will show me. Um I can tell you that actually having dogs. But um, maybe it wasn't It wasn't a shadow but well maybe it is I don't know the true definition of a shadow but like my dogs helped me realize I had still had a bit of anger in me actually.
03:04.60
calltocourage
Um.
03:17.76
calltocourage
So.
03:19.20
Gareth
And Yassi I was surprised with myself atalal flip and much I could get angry with my dogs but um and I think that was actually one of the most I think important things that happened was getting dogs because they brought out this kind of like. Excess anger I had and I thought I was a calm oak but they brought this out in me and then I think for that reason with Maya I've been like I mean extremely extremely calm. Not I mean it's completely different. You know like she's she's your little daughter and.
03:43.82
calltocourage
Ah.
03:50.10
calltocourage
On here.
03:55.76
Gareth
And they're obviously dogs so you can't I mean you can't compare. No and please don't learn some you know, get get sort of too upset about me saying this but you know people listening Um, but ya I think they um the dogs definitely showed me that I that I had to.
03:57.74
calltocourage
Happen.
04:12.66
Gareth
Had to sort out something inside me that that made me a little bit angry still. Um, so so yeah, and Maya she is still has to show me exactly what it is you know? but um, yeah, but what a blessing but I'm so I'm just I really.
04:28.39
Gareth
Yes I know I've said this to you on like audio messages before but I um I think yeah I think people like yourself people like Kragos whatever like you know, like should be ones that are having kids as well like we we you know there's there's.
04:48.45
Gareth
In the world. There's a lot of wrong people breeding but and unfortunately sometimes ah you know, um people that should be breeding aunts as well and and and yeah, but anyway, that's that's ah, that's me rambling on but sorry.
05:00.51
calltocourage
No I am it's been such an important conversation to have to have and I think when you shared with voicenats you've been backwards and for a little bit over the last few months recognizing that there's that there's gifts and perils in both of the choices. You know the choice to become a parent as well as the choice not to become a parent and the obvious ones are you know you have more time you have more money you have more space you have all of those things if you choose not to go on that adventure of becoming a parent and There's a part of me that needed to mourn the journey of what it means not to realize that I'm going to become a parent to a human if we have animals and I resonate with your saying with the gods did like bringing up stuff like the being ah a dog dad has been super intense at times and it's put a lot of. Pressure on our relationship and it's really forced us to look at stuff. So I resonate with that. But there's also maybe this is the same for you but growing up in South Africa there's this general expectation in the world that you will become a parent this was like sort of part of what we had when we kept were brought up like you'll get married at some point you'll have kids. That's the job. And so when you choose to make a different decision. Not only do you have to mourn your own future memories like the ideas of what it would have been for Gareth Pickering to be a dad etc, Etc. But also there's like this sort of collective projection that you have from your social circles and friends and family and people that care about you who think that.
06:27.17
calltocourage
This is what you need to be doing and if you don't somehow laugh doesn't have as much meaning you know because that's how they see the world. So yeah I've had you sit with that as well and we've had ah we got a mutual friend Craig and we've had a similar conversation about what it means to make both of those choices in the pros and cons of birth.
06:45.23
Gareth
Yeah bad I mean I was in your guys' sort of camp I guess ah for a long time like I didn't I didn't really want to be a dad you know like I didn't I was like I think I was just selfish. You know I was like oh yeah, my life is my life is great I want to travel I want to keep. Doing whatever I'm doing you know and and and my time is precious and stuff and and yeah and then I met Marissa we met eight years ago and I mean she probably would have had a baby ah a month after we kind of met she she has. She's been broody for a long time and um, you know over time like i.
07:15.69
calltocourage
And.
07:20.98
Gareth
Just I became like I was like yeah I definitely want to be a dad now you know I met that I met somebody who was who was so keen to be a mom and um yeah I'm so glad that I did but I'm so glad that I did because it's it's something amazing to experience.
07:27.11
calltocourage
Yet.
07:37.27
Gareth
Like there's just something so amazing about having a kid but I mean it's hard to explain but you know just what they show you the the way they are um, just the light they bring to your life and it's just amazing. So so yeah, I'm um. i' glad that ah that over over time I I shifted my mindset and and you are kind of like almost I don't regret at all anything but like sometimes you're like yesy I should have done this earlier. Um maybe had a couple you know, but Patil I think we we're very happy with with 1 super healthy, super happy.
08:06.00
calltocourage
And.
08:12.43
Gareth
Beautiful loving daughter and I think that's it's going to be our our path from from here forward. We've thought about it today. We've really imed an odd about it a lot. Um.
08:15.77
calltocourage
So no plans to have siblings for my.
08:26.27
Gareth
But at at the moment we're saying yeah we we just going to have like Mayas as our sort of only daughter. Um, if it does happen it happens that's cool. Um, but but you are right now I think we're just going to. We're just going to keep keep myas as our only daughter keep it that sounds strange.
08:34.30
calltocourage
And.
08:40.40
calltocourage
Awesome! And how's it been for? Yeah, how some how has it been on your relationship has it been smooth sailing for you and Marissa has it brought up stuff between the 2 of you.
08:46.66
Gareth
You know what? I mean. Ah.
08:55.55
Gareth
It's it's no ways. Yes, he um I don't think yeah I mean I think if anyone says it's smooth sailing they they're probably lying to you. Um, because bad you you know you you sleep deprivved for a lot of you know at least the first.
09:04.11
calltocourage
Ah.
09:10.46
Gareth
So for the first six months for us maya. Actually she wouldn't sleep by herself but she would only sleep on us right? So it was always like 1 of us would have to be sleeping with her and there was like you know that's during the day obviously in the nights as well. So you're not really sleeping that well and um.
09:18.53
calltocourage
Um, that had.
09:24.34
calltocourage
And.
09:28.25
Gareth
Yeah, so so like you Sleep-dep Deprivd and um, you're kind of irritable and and and you know sometimes you know something happens and you just kind of like bark at each other and then it just goes down badly. Um, so so yeah, definitely hasn't been plane sailing you know and then you're dealing with you know, generally the the girls are.
09:41.32
calltocourage
Ah.
09:48.22
Gareth
Um, you know they're a bit more um, hormonal. Um, and um, you know also very sensitive. Um because things like breastfeeding are you know, very emotional process. You know, especially like when it say it doesn't go well.
10:03.55
calltocourage
And intrusive. Ah.
10:05.72
Gareth
Yeah I don't know about intrusive I think it's quite beautiful actually but um, but I think like you know say like you you learn you only learn about things Once you've had kids a but like you know so like woman a lot of women suffer from a thing called Mesdisis Mystisis which is like. The the hardening of their breasts which is the the breast milk getting ripping hard and it's painful and also it's like you know you're like worried because okay, cool I'm I'm not going to be able to breastfeed you know, not cool, but like you know like yes I'm not going to be able to breastfeed so it's It's an emotional thing to go Through. Um.
10:35.32
calltocourage
Um.
10:38.95
calltocourage
The.
10:40.70
Gareth
And then the babies Sometimes you know they don't suck on the boob. Um, and once again, it's it's this connection that the mother loses to to the child and um, it's a very emotional thing. Um, so so yeah, there's There's all these things that that sort of happen that you that you don't know until you've had kids. Um, and.
11:01.87
Gareth
I mean as a father like you you really have to um, just just be very conscious of of how you are um and just be super zen. Super um, super calm and extremely supportive. Um, and do. What you can where you can you know in the in the first few months um but but you are you know there's definitely been some big rorts. Um, and but that's okay I think that's that's actually part of it but like it's not It's not like that anymore like you know the last like say two three months have been amazing.
11:19.42
calltocourage
Um, if nothing.
11:36.59
Gareth
Ah, soon as maya like started sleeping and by herself not not needing us and um, yeah, just us having a bit more of our own time and and time together it just changes everything but so a lot of a lot of it I think which where people sort of.
11:40.83
calltocourage
So.
11:46.52
calltocourage
Are.
11:54.38
Gareth
Might get sort of stressed out or have issues in their relationship. Um, when they first have kids they must realize that that it's a lot of it. The the stresses are temporary. You know, um, and and and you will get over it for sure and things will get much better and but you definitely.
12:04.52
calltocourage
Nothing.
12:13.54
Gareth
You definitely need to both um, kind of be on the same page and and understand that it is going to be a bit tough and um, you all get through it for sure.
12:21.86
calltocourage
Take a step back and let ah our listeners know who you are more or less in your origin story by sharing the roles that you've Played. We've been through your journey now a little bit as a father but like as a son and a brother.. How's that journey been for you and. What's your origin story through those two lenses.
12:44.91
Gareth
Well um, as a son I mean my both my folks are south african like yours born in South Africa um and yeah I mean sure where do you begin with it with a question like that. Um.
13:01.83
Gareth
Yeah I mean I I want to answer this for you nicely. My my parents are both highly talented people. Um, but they weren't actually meant for each other. So like we went through a very messy divorce growing up as ah as a son and and as a sister my sister I a sister Allison and I think that was really really tough. You know and. Um, yeah, going going through that was was was a very difficult thing for me like I like I'm I'm a happy child I had a happy child and I was well looked after but I think the the divorce was was kind of like a bit of ah a turning point in. Um, yeah, just being a child. You know, um. And well I mean now you all of a sudden you you know your parents are living in different places in different houses they they're not talking nicely about each other. Um they are playing games against each other.
14:00.55
calltocourage
It's any point like how you it was a shift there or something changed or.
14:20.11
Gareth
And because you know I think what happens but is a lot of the time we carry issues that we don't resolve um all of us you know or every single one of us and and and sometimes that plays out you know in what always plays out in various different ways. And yeah I think I don't know my my mom was um, she was I think deeply hurt if I think about it that's probably the right way to put it but it came across and in a bit of a different Way. You know like it was um.
14:56.94
Gareth
Yeah, it it wasn't an easy divorce. But um I felt like I was sort of used a little bit you know in in that um as sort of collateral damage. Um, and but you don't know it at the time but you know this is all just sort of me looking back in hindsight. Um.
15:13.49
calltocourage
Yeah.
15:16.49
Gareth
And you're kind of like you're like yeah yasi that was that was quite hectic. Growing up going through what we what we went through and and um and Jon I actually went to face everything. It was weird like I I moved to London when I was 18 and then i. The first time I went home I think was 2 years afterwards and I said to myself I'm going to go home and I'm going to sort out any issue every issue I have like you know with anybody in my life and and there wasn't many people. There was like 3 people or something like that and 2 of them I wanted to speakie was my was my parents. You know. And just be honest with them about like you know what happened and how I felt and what it meant to me and that was such an amazing thing but it was so weird like looking back now I'm like I'm like yes like like how did I like why did I do that or like where did I come up with that. Even though you know to try and. Thought that sort of healing as such a sort of immature little 20 year old boy and but something in me knew that I had to sort of just speak to them about it and um, ever since then but I think ah, my relationships have been like great with my parents and um.
16:15.91
calltocourage
Is this.
16:23.86
calltocourage
Also be.
16:26.85
Gareth
We We sorted that Out. You know? So So as a son like you know everyone has their stories and and and you know I Love my parents to death and they gave me lots of lots of great sort of talents and and skills physically and and and mind and and all that sort of stuff and but they also showed me certain things. Um. And we went through a lot of ups and downs. Um, but now you know now we're all adults and now we we kind of we realize like what happened and not all of it was great. Um, yeah so sorry man and that's it's It's a great question like. And I hadn't even thought of an answer um or obviously didn't even know you're going to ask it So So I would have to formulate that I guess over time and give you a better answer.
17:06.29
calltocourage
Um.
17:10.46
calltocourage
Yeah, it's that it's that moment when we realize that our we're raised by imperfect Humans. You know, like as ah as a young person I think we have this idea that everybody older than us knows and is some are perfect but in many ways, especially with. Like any sort of awakening journey or any sort of healing work that generations like us have had access to that our parents have had they become you know, normal mortal human beings and that's ah you know it's empowering to realize that.
17:37.49
Gareth
But that's actually been one of my greatest realizations of being a parent is that I like I look back like I mean I look at me and I'm like Yassi there's so many things I have not got together and I'm so like like like I'm such a kid when it comes to so many things.
17:52.40
calltocourage
Ah.
17:56.61
Gareth
You know? and um and I like then I think about my parents and and like and I'm like they were the exact same as me at the end of the day you know like they were also just sort of figuring stuff out and you know even though they were older and you look up to them like they they don't flip and have half the things sorted out that they that they should you know. And um, so that's been like a great realization for me like you know how? yeah I mean I don't know just just looking back at at say what my parents were were thinking and doing as as I was growing up and just just realizing. Yeah,, they're just the same as me they had so many things.
18:16.64
calltocourage
Um, ah.
18:34.61
Gareth
Unresolved and still to figure out and and they're just trying to you know trying to grow up these two kids as as well as they can and have the other stresses of of life too and and so it's been a good a good lesson actually good reflection. That's for sure.
18:47.40
calltocourage
And are your folks in good health.
18:54.83
Gareth
Yes, yeah, they are actually um, everyone is everyone is in good health. Um, yeah I mean my my yeah everyone is good. But yeah I mean there's something no bad. Um.
18:57.41
calltocourage
Muslims.
19:05.68
calltocourage
Have they made maya yet.
19:11.61
Gareth
They haven't ah my my mom really wants to come ah to to Brazil it just it just wasn't the right time but to be honest with you like early on. Um but now she's actually in Australia just with her brother and she's there. It's all february.
19:20.29
calltocourage
So yeah.
19:28.47
Gareth
And then um, later on this year it would be nice for her to come over and and meet maya. Um, it's been a bit of a challenge with my dad I won't lie like yeah, it's so strange. But I mean. You know I know I'm saying this I feel like bad for saying this stuff out loud but it's it's all the truth. So I wish like my old man would be a bit more excited about being a granddad. It actually really hurts me that he's not like at least he might be but he doesn't show it and he doesn't talk about it. You know, but I also know my dad is.
19:44.16
calltocourage
Thank you aha.
19:56.69
calltocourage
But.
20:00.31
Gareth
You know he's a little bit of an awkward guy, especially emotionally and and I and totally understand why like I mean over the years I've really asked my dad a lot about his childhood and about his mother and his brother and his his dad and all these things and I mean yes if if someone. Grew up in a troubled household that God did you know? and yeah I Guess how he is is a true reflection of of his upbringing. Um, and it's no excuse though I think we all have a responsibility to deal with our stuff at some point. Um.
20:30.16
calltocourage
Um.
20:34.26
calltocourage
That says.
20:36.60
Gareth
But it does make some people awkward about certain things you know and my dad is ah um, he's not a tougher guy that's like really going to tell you how a lot about his emotions you know or show them show them.
20:50.43
calltocourage
This is.
20:52.90
Gareth
Um, although he has really softened a lot over the last say fifteen years and become much more open and him and I we do discuss like nice deep things. Um, which I really really enjoy but still sometimes I know it's really hard for him to express himself.
21:11.67
calltocourage
And your dance as a brother. How's that been as ah as a sibling to Alison.
21:15.91
Gareth
Yeah, but it's been It's been look I was I was a little bit older than Allie Not not much like 3 years um and I mean I like I have great memories growing up. You know, but not not like tons I mean one of the cool memories I have which which I remember um. We used to play like in the swimming pool. But for hours like I mean we used to play this stupid game like we would swim like it would be in the deep end and swimming like you know the widthways of the pool. 1 person would have a tennis ball in their hand and the other person and they would they would swim.
21:49.38
calltocourage
Um, was.
21:53.46
Gareth
The bottom of the the deep end and they would let the tennis ball go and then it would like float up and the person at the top had to had to catch the ball before it like got to the top sort of thing you know and um and you'd get points for. However, um yeah, you'd get points for like however many you you captured.
21:55.87
calltocourage
Ah.
22:04.27
calltocourage
Ah.
22:11.71
Gareth
And we would play that for hours you know like hours and my mom would our mom would be screaming come not screaming but you'd like come. It's dinnertime dinnertime dinnertime and um, yeah, and and that was like you know we I think we had a ah cool relationship as as brother and sister. Um.
22:12.19
calltocourage
Ah.
22:29.79
Gareth
But we were you know we were like a few years apart and um, we we did have some issues like um with ah with with during the divorce like you know there was times where I like didn't speak to my dad for a couple years um
22:31.20
calltocourage
So.
22:49.63
Gareth
And there's times when I went and stayed with my dad then there was times where ellie didn't speak. You know to my dad for a while and and then there's times when she went to go stay with my dad as opposed to staying with my mom and and then so so we we we also had I think sort of breaks in like how. How often we were around each other. Um, yeah, and then but I mean I left to go like I said to London when I was 18 and I kind of really lost touch with my sister I guess it wasn't it. It wasn't a time where I think email had just come out sort of thing you know so it's not like it's not like now. Um.
23:26.40
calltocourage
So.
23:28.66
Gareth
The time I really remember reconnecting with my sister was when blackberries sort of came out and she had a blackberry and I a blackberry and they had that Blackberry Messenger and we started and Messenger was free. You know and you know what our South Africans are like we don't don't spend money on text messages like.
23:35.66
calltocourage
Remember.
23:43.30
calltocourage
Right.
23:44.62
Gareth
Ah, we um, you know free free messaging like with Blackberry Messenger was amazing. So so we we we actually reconnected with on Blackberry Messenger and um that that was really really cool and then um, yeah I think over time like we've.
23:48.28
calltocourage
Are.
24:04.21
Gareth
Even though we've lived pretty much in different countries since I was 18 Ah we've we've grown much closer together and um, that's been very special. We've met overseas a lot of times. Um as ah, brother and sister but also sometimes with like.
24:05.93
calltocourage
I.
24:22.61
Gareth
With Ellie's like boyfriend Greg um, which has been super cool. Um, yeah, and then I think the last year has been actually very tough on us like we had ah had a hectic incidence um with our mom and they're kind of like we both. Think soul things a little bit differently and um, that definitely put a bit of a what's a word like ah, a strain should I say on our relationship as brother and sister and it's ah I think it's still going to take a bit of time to to heal that properly.
24:46.70
calltocourage
Um.
24:53.59
calltocourage
Um, okay, if.
25:00.25
Gareth
Um, So so that's been that sucks like it sucks especially because it's not necessarily like our fault although it is of course because we I guess our our communication our way of seeing things. Wasn't wasn't good and it was It was a highly emotional thing and um I know I know that there's There's some some stuff that needs to be spoken about and and resolved there and I don't think it's a thing that sort of time necessarily Heals. So.
25:31.72
calltocourage
You mean action is the requirement. Okay.
25:35.71
Gareth
Yes, exactly exactly? Yeah um, you know we can. We can kind of ignore each other if we want but that's not actually going to resolve anything.
25:44.51
calltocourage
Um, yeah man when you look going forward is your as your role as a father. What are some of the main characteristics you want to embody as a as a father for maya. What are some of the the words you would use to describe your ideal path.
26:00.76
Gareth
So to teacher is out is able to mean oh who do I need to be Okay, um well I I need to be someone that ah leads I think.
26:04.75
calltocourage
Who do you need to be to be the father that you want to be for my. Ah.
26:17.58
Gareth
Through action you know kids are sponges but they literally copy you everything that you do and I think I think with any kind of leadership role. Not that not that parent I guess parenting is some sort of leadership role. You know, but.
26:17.75
calltocourage
Good night.
26:26.90
calltocourage
Ah.
26:35.13
calltocourage
Very much. So.
26:38.10
Gareth
Yeah I mean so I will just need to teach her through through my behavior and through my actions. Um, so you know I guess teaching her good values through showing her good values. Um, teaching her good morals through showing her good morals and so it all it all stems from my behavior and Marisas Of course you know like and how we are with each other for sure as Well. Um, so I think.
26:56.31
calltocourage
And.
27:06.71
calltocourage
Um, yeah, um.
27:14.61
Gareth
Overarching thing is is literally through through my behavior as as a dad um and through our behavior as parents and that's how we really are and a teacher you know? and yeah and just allow her to to learn what she needs to learn and not be. I Guess too pushy, whatever. But um, yeah, that's probably it.
27:38.40
calltocourage
What are what are some of those values. What do you? What do you see? I mean I get it I think the modeling of what you're talking about luck model What it is that you want your child to be what are those some of those values that you want to embody.
27:50.21
Gareth
Yeah, well I mean I want to teach her um resilience I think I mean it's always been a a good I don't know if it's a value or trait. But it's definitely something I want to sort of impart on here.
27:57.13
calltocourage
Um, Jane.
28:07.99
Gareth
Ah, you know like you can't necessarily say teach like happiness sort of thing you need to teach people to be resilient and strong and that will then allow you to to feel things like happiness. Um I want her to understand that. Ah.
28:26.91
Gareth
You know the world is is not ah, not all rosy necessarily um and it's going to require like you know, hard work. It's going to require determination. It's going to require discipline to um to get I don't know whatever she wants in life.
28:28.95
calltocourage
Are.
28:45.34
Gareth
Um, but that does and that stuff allows you then to to be happy to have fun, etc, etc. Um, the other thing that I really think is important that I want her to to remember and to try take on is just to be to be kind and. Just just a way that flipmen. We're all very different. We're all experiencing different realities as you say a lot and if you can keep that in the back of your mind when you're talking to people or talking about people or being with people being around people. Ah, you will be. You will love for much deeper understanding much deeper relationships and and a lot more sort of empathy and kindness and um I'd like her to to sort of realize that.
29:35.54
calltocourage
So good in some in some voice that's going bad because and forward over the last few years you and I have spoken about some of the what's the word like maybe the the pain of.
29:38.58
Gareth
So.
29:52.64
calltocourage
Some sort of conscious awakening like how painful it is to look back and to see others like perhaps on a different path share some of that journey as as it's unfolded in your life over the last few years like even some of the rabbit holes you've looked down some of the places that you find yourself spending. Attention like what's.
30:11.88
Gareth
Yes, okay, and it's a great question. Um I think it's it's probably for me become more ah I've become more aware of the the trucionangans in the world over probably the last five years um but I turned off my Tv about ten years ago right and I think that's actually the start starts of this sort of deprogramming and um, when you when you stop consuming the news but it's ah it's amazing. What you can actually learn and um. And and spend your time on and and yeah and what else you can consume besides that brainwashing that spat outs you every every single day. Um, so I mean yeah, some of the things that ah yeah, that are that i.
30:49.22
calltocourage
Moving it.
31:00.71
Gareth
Have um I guess the the last three years have been real open now you know in terms of this this shall you say fake pandemic am I allowed to say that um that is ah yeah I ah so like I mean.
31:11.83
calltocourage
See your opinion. You can say whatever you like you have it.
31:18.43
Gareth
That has been like a massive eyeopener for me bad luck because you know what like it's It's actually made me.. It made me really really sad bad How so many people that I flippin am like good mates with that I feel. Like I feel just very distant to to to them based on I Guess how they see how they see the world in terms of like you know what is told to them by say media and that sort of stuff and I just feel I do feel sad that people don't think for themselves. And like they'll just believe what is spat out of them and then they're very defensive if you provide a counternarrative or just even ask a question to say well tell me like more about this, you know, knowing that they wouldn't really be able to give you I don't know you know. A good reason for it. Um, So yeah I mean that's and and that's that's hurt on ah on a like ah a friendship level but also a more collective level as like a. Humanity thing. You know I didn't realize like so many people were like I don't know just took everything that they were told you know like and like believed it. Um, it just it just kind of blows my blows my mind how the critical thinking of.
32:50.71
Gareth
People was was kind of non-existent. Um, um, yeah, but it's also I mean it's also good. Yeah.
32:57.75
calltocourage
Before you group there I Want to ask you is your is your critical thinking. Not also coming from consuming media like you making your model of reality based on the data that you have like you know without knowing that there could be another level that you're not able to see. Someone else may feel the same pain when they try and connect with you and speak to you about something else.
33:15.51
Gareth
No for sure. But I mean I think it's It's like a bit of a dangerous game isn't it. You know you you think kind of you know what's going on because you're consuming the opposite to somebody else and who knows maybe. I'm being told like also brainwashed by by certain things I think the only difference is but is that say guys like you and me we're at least taking in both our information and the information that say our friends are taking in.
33:38.64
calltocourage
Um I have.
33:53.15
Gareth
Ah, they're just taking in the what the the information say from from I don't know Bbc or news 24 or whatever mainstream media and they are not. They're not open to even listening to a counter narrative I think.
34:10.66
calltocourage
Um, and.
34:11.78
Gareth
We are more open to to listening to both because we understand that there are always 2 sides to a story. There's always more truths than just one. Um and I think that is the difference right.
34:30.44
Gareth
but um but I do agree ah and ah can't necessarily say well I'm definitely right? But at least we are listening to to 2 2 different stories and and and sort of trying to make some sense of that does that make sense.
34:45.55
calltocourage
It is I I've had to find my peace in recognizing that there aren't two sides to a story. There's 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 sides to a story you know and I I look at various versions of my own timeline and I can see a version of Gareth that never left South Africa and I would probably be 1 of the mates now that was sucking up mainstream narrative because I don't think I would have had the conscious awareness to perhaps have access to or have a model of the world that at least provided spaciousness for me to want to look you know when you don't know what to look for It's not even an option for you to look. And so yeah but then what what happens is I get to this place where I'm like okay now I can see this this and this and I can see shenanigans as you talk about it but I'm like I don't know that could be a double Dummy. You know we've been programmed in so many ways you know it's very easy to plant ideas different ah counternarratives and stuff to. Create a separate narrative where suddenly I think I ah know. Okay I'll see that side and I'll see the badies and therefore I'm good. It's like I don't know there's probably another fucking 20 layers that I still don't see that are yeah ah every day is a conscious awakening and there's more and more stuff that.
36:03.60
calltocourage
I Think there's so many things that we don't know there's so many things that we've had the will pulled over our eyes about and every time I go down a rabbit hole. It just goes like oh it expands art and I'm like whoa. That's really firstly. Sometimes really dark sometimes really painful and then it's like okay well now I've got that and then suddenly someone will be like what shape is the earth and you'll be like I don't know I think it's I think it's round and they're like how do you know that you like I learned it in school but like I gave it then you know, ah fuck it all of these things are just. My constructed reality based on everything that's been programmed into my world and suddenly I'm like shit you know if someone has genuinely got an incentive to make me believe you know that we have to have countries or if the world is a specific shape or that this is why we need money all of that could be bullshit.
36:53.35
Gareth
Yeah, but it's super interesting man. Um I Um Yeah I mean just just some of the stuff like you said like that that people believe in that you think yes, you've really lost your mind. You know what I mean. I mean yeah, so so I remember years ago like some mates of mine. Um, they invited me to this whatapp group about flat Earth and um, and and these oaks would ah I'd wake up in the morning and there'd be like 50 messages but not like short messages like long messages with links.
37:16.33
calltocourage
And.
37:29.54
Gareth
And everything in these oaks like literally arguing back and forth like yes, it is no. It isn't blah blah and eventually I was like your oaks are prepping crazy. You know like I mean um, at that point.
37:37.76
calltocourage
What position are you holding at this point are you open minded or you just think these guys are all mad because the world's actually around.
37:46.40
Gareth
no at that but no no I was I was very open-minded but I was like um I was like oh I'd actually never heard of I'd never really heard of that because this is like a few years ago and I was like oh well I mean I'm open to listening to to the argument for sure. Um, but then eventually I was like yes this the oaks just.
37:55.70
calltocourage
Um.
38:03.97
Gareth
I Mean they they it was like a cultish behavior but like and I think that's um, on both sides. Yeah I are totally totally like um you know and and I was like you know what I don't think it really makes right now. A big difference in my life.
38:06.44
calltocourage
On both sides. Yes.
38:19.86
Gareth
So I'm just going to flip and get out of this group because it's just a waste of my energy and and I'm just getting frustrated. You know, um, but over over like the last few years you know like I I've really become interested in in a lot of like crazy things like that you know and and it's amazing, but like some oaks I've got this 1 friend. I've actually never met in real life like at the last three years I've made so many friends online which is kind of crazy. Um, kind of cool kind of crazy kind of not cool, but you know there's some oaks that like they actually won't talk to you unless you you believe that the earth is flat or like a dome shape or something and I'm like.
38:46.27
calltocourage
Um.
38:58.83
Gareth
Listen I mean you know you could be right? but you could also be flipping wrong and um, you know like let's not let this sort of get in the way of our relationship but people become cultish but in in terms of things they believe in and I think that's what you were saying about. You know both side like you know the the propaganda and there whatever is is comes heavy on both sides. Ah so it's been It's been a real awakening but but but probably 1 of the most important things I think is is that it has made me much more.
39:37.38
Gareth
Open to listening to arguments about anything literally about anything that I'll I'll definitely yeah I mean it's not for me to to be the person to decide but I'm really interested in listening to to how you debate different things.
39:43.29
calltocourage
Ah.
39:56.90
Gareth
And what you believe in. So so I'm really open to to listening you know and I think that that is an important thing because as soon as you have like ah you know like ah you shut off to certain information is when you stop actually growing. But I mean.
40:00.77
calltocourage
No.
40:14.48
Gareth
It doesn't have to be about that particular thing you know, but like as soon as you stop yourself from not wanting to listen to somebody talk you you just sort of you know you're shutting yourself off from from so much growth yourself and and I think that's ah, that's not a good thing to do. Um. Joe Rogan always says something really interesting is like we must allow everybody to say what they want you know and he's like but what you have to do you know if you want to argue with them. You must come up with a good ah better argument than what they're saying to you and I think that's really important. We must all be allowed to say almost anything we want and but if you really want to get your points across make sure that you have a flip and great arguments. You are super articulate and that will allow you to at least ah have a stronger arguments or get your points across.
41:10.83
calltocourage
So what's ah, what's something big that you've changed your mind on over the last few years like what's something that you thought you knew and now you've gone like actually that wasn't it. You can have a few. Yeah, if you want to list I Know there's a lot of these.
41:19.84
Gareth
Yeah, see something. Yeah I think I think um maybe what it's another way for me to say this? Um, it's it's created a lot of distrust for me but in.
41:37.64
Gareth
A lot of things that I've kind of been told a lot of things that we are told we have to do um like say say like when it comes to to your children right? You have to follow a certain like like way of doing things in terms of.
41:44.29
calltocourage
Um, like.
41:56.65
Gareth
Education right? in terms of medical things like say vaccines in terms of um yeah I guess you know that's just that's just kind of like 1 example and and a lot of those things are are total lies like you know that's um.
41:59.11
calltocourage
Um.
42:15.71
Gareth
People have been led to believe for at least the last century. Um, yeah, um, just remind me what what was what was the question again exactly sorry.
42:26.30
calltocourage
So like something that you held like an idea that you had that you've now changed your mind on like a belief that you had you were like actually I don't think I believe that anymore.
42:36.14
Gareth
Um, yeah, yes, see Um, what is a good one that I've that I've changed recently? Um, yes, nothing nothing is like popping out right now that I that I can actually remember um.
42:50.80
Gareth
But I think like I said that the the thing it's just it's just created this distrust and I don't know if it's ah yeah, distrust is probably the right word in in many industries and and and what we are educated and how we educated and that I actually need to sort of do much more sort of deprogramming. And um, and and go just find out things for myself. Um I'll have to think about exactly like you know good a good thing but but nothing sort of yeah, can remember 1 right now to be honest.
43:17.50
calltocourage
Know or no like what's ah, what's a rabbit hole that you've been down recently that you found interesting. Maybe that's another way of asking it like you. What's something that you've looked and been lucky.
43:25.20
Gareth
Okay, I'll tell you I'll tell you a really interesting. Um, interesting rabbit hole that I've been going down which is not necessarily I don't know. Maybe it's not like a misinformation thing. But I think it's something that is is not really spoken about a lot. Um, and that is actually birth trauma. But. Um, I recently spoke to this this amazing lady like on my podcast and um she I mean yeah it was It was actually like a very difficult conversation and and she's like yeah I understand that this is a difficult conversation because most people have never actually.
43:46.47
calltocourage
Um.
44:03.38
Gareth
Thought about this or dealt with it and she taught and she um she speaks about birth trauma and how so many of us probably like 95% of us are dealing with some sort of birth trauma and that has a lot to do with the process of birth. Also like so pre-birth like prenatal and the actual birth of your kid and then afterwards you know as well like you know things like say ultrasound like and I've heard this I had heard this before right? and then when I went and asked my audiologist cousin she said I was talking.
44:30.20
calltocourage
So.
44:42.16
Gareth
Rubbish and I was like okay, um, but they say that like ultrasound is a huge cause of distress for for kids and it's actually super loud. It results in a lot of um, kids now having hearing issues and also. Many other issues even fatalities and because of the the sound of it. Um, then I don't know if you've gone down the the sort of Circumcision Rabbit hole at all. Um, that one is is pretty scary. Um, and um.
45:11.45
calltocourage
Yeah.
45:16.80
Gareth
I didn't I never thought of it as ah as a form of torture you know and I mean yeah I mean I guess there's always 2 arguments you know, but what we've been led to believe is that it's like really good and clean and important and whatnot but actually. What it takes away from you and is so much more bad luck than is than people can even comprehend you know and when she told me the process of it but I don't know if you I mean you probably do because this is is your realm. You know she was telling me that like they take the sport. Okay, this little board and.
45:40.43
calltocourage
I Have my have.
45:54.28
Gareth
Strap the baby boy to it. They literally strap his legs and his arms to it and they flip and take a syringe and they put it into the flippin. Um the foreskin and then they flip and do what they got to do right and the like I mean when I was on a ward with um. With Marissa giving birth I mean I've never heard so much screaming and like you're like yes this what's going on. Yeah, you know, just sounds like so painful all these ladies going through birth but ah from all accounts is like the ward that they do the circumcision on which is the the little boys that are then screaming. Is like 10 times worse. But and you know that is just the process is hectic. You know and then I mean there's so many other things about a about our birth and the you know the the medicines and stuff that they give to help at the epidurals. The.
46:37.21
calltocourage
This is.
46:50.56
Gareth
Um, the cutting of the corrds the um getting rid of the placenta and then they sell that's blood off to ever else and stuff like you know like they like it's it's it's it's heavy, heavy things you know like there's I guess this is maybe. 1 of those things that you're asking me about like and this is probably one of those rabbit holes. Um, where which has been a very recent one where they you know they talk about like people wanting children and child's blood. To inject into themselves to keep them youthful and stuff and it's like it sounds absolutely crazy and like like no one would ever do that you you stupid Gareth? You know what? I mean like don't don't even think about it. But I mean once you I think become aware of this stuff. But. Just the way that people behave and I don't know if you even like I just saw some stuff today when I was searching on Twitter like the grammys last night like the the scenes there like there's this real dark evil undertone to it and um. Nothing surprises me anymore. But with ah with with what these like sort of elites ruling people might do for for pleasure and that's been very dark and difficult and I can tell you that it's made me a flippin protective more protective person than I've ever thought I would possibly be seriously. But if.
48:18.83
Gareth
If anyone came close to my daughter I would fucking destroy them I can't even begin to tell you what dad energy and dad protectiveness comes up when you become aware of some of these these disgusting things that go on in the world. Um, so so actually that's ah, that's a.
48:27.88
calltocourage
And.
48:37.92
Gareth
To answer your earlier question I think that's probably 1 I've gone down a bit recently.
48:42.24
calltocourage
Such gnarly Topics. You know I wanted to I wanted to come back to your friend who you approach with the idea that ultrasound isn't good and I think you know it's really difficult for that person. Have the thing that they do and use and have trained for and studied with and make a living from every single day be somehow evil you know it's the same as telling somebody that believes that the world is round that it's suddenly flat like when someone told me that like it shakes everything that I believe to be true about Reality. And so it's really uncomfortable for you to even be able to hold that as an opportunity as a potential like how could this even be true and the same is true with the darkness If. You're not prepared to look at the potential shadow of what it means that there might be a market for four skins or. Placentas or something like that if you're not prepared to look at that you know I'm not saying it's true I haven't been down this rabbit hole I mean I understand that what you said that that there could be a market for that and that young blood the stem cells that come from a placenta are the most you know, vibrant and youthful and that you know. That could be true, but you know if you're not prepared to to look at that or it shakes you in a way that you're not able to hold that. Yeah, it's it. It makes you feel really uncomfortable in every part of your being. Um.
50:01.84
Gareth
So Something Really interesting. Bad. This lady was telling me about because I said because I you know I mean some of the stuff you you know people can say what they want I guess on a podcast and but sometimes you you kind of have to challenge things a little bit as well. Um, it's It's important you know, not not necessarily because you don't. Believe them or you're trying to be a hard us whatever but just just maybe to get a bit more information out of them. So One of the things that she was saying was she was like I mean I was like yeah but you know people that say work in the the medical industry like I mean my mom's a nurse like she you know? Yeah I don't think my mom is like ah an evil. Person and and you know she she worked on the maternity ward and you know she? Um, yeah I Just don't think that she would do these things intentionally and because you know she's she's a type of person and and then she was like listen go she's like.
50:48.77
calltocourage
4
50:56.41
Gareth
I I agree like I know exactly what she's saying. She's like I've written I've written some books on this. She's like let me give you 1 example, this is and this is not ah of children. But it's a vets. She said I had a lady that wrote into me or that I interviewed as as. Sort of part of citation and evidence for my book that so in her veterinary education and studying they were they had to go through this training where they took a dog right? and. This dog was in like this tank of water. Okay, and they the body. No no, no, it's alive but the dog's alive right? and it's it's a live dog and they they took the dog and they um.
51:36.51
calltocourage
The the body of a dog a corpse.
51:50.60
Gareth
Submerged it in water completely. So that like it couldn't breathe and they did this like repeatedly they affected and and and all these veterinary students are there watching it I can't remember the exact reason like that. Um. They actually do do this although one of the reasons that they do do it is to make people like hardened and that like that are in the industry like Vetin you know they're hardened to the cruelty um of an animal and and I was like. Yeah, see I mean she explains it much better I can't remember exactly all the details but it's it's like along those lines you know and they they go through it repeatedly so eventually they're like yeah this is normal. You know and and they just become normalized to this cruelty and she's like and then she's like you, you need to understand that like sort of. The medical profession and stuff they they have similar things that they will teach and show and whatnot and that just makes them sort of like numb to to a lot of things that they actually see and they they kind of normal they they kind of like normalize a lot of things that are that are not normalized. And um, yeah, that was pretty hectic but to to even think like you know that people you know that are she's I mean you know parents and friends and everything that are in that industry have have gone through shit like that to kind of make them think it's normal.
53:22.48
Gareth
I mean I still have to obviously speak to people kind of in that industry to understand more from them. You know to get the other side of the story because I think that's only fair, but um, like I said I wouldn't I wouldn't say this lady's lying to me that's for sure.
53:23.59
calltocourage
Um.
53:38.79
calltocourage
It's not much different even maybe without the cruelty side in terms of how we're led to believe and create our reality from whatever it is. You know, like whatever we told in school that becomes the thing that is taught to be true. You know and so if at any point in terms of that process of educating or programming or. Feeding of information that we use to create our reality is in any way normalized even without the cruelty it just becomes somehow acceptable and so people don't even feel like you said they don't realize that they're doing anything wrong and they're not out there to necessarily you know, follow something vindictively or be on a path vindictively. They're just doing what it is that I normally do and this is how we deliver babies and this is what we do to young boys and this is what we do to dogs is whatever the story is like that just happens to be what it is and that's how we we create our reality. That's only when we take the time to look or find out something that there's another potential incentive or. The data that we've been given to educate us or to to teach us is somehow skewed or incentivized or aligned to another way that we suddenly have this awareness that there's anything else happening and you know up until honestly this is for me, maybe not even five years ago circumcision would have been if I'd had a boy it would have been circumcised because I'm circumcised and I understood that to be the way that it was some story about it being cleaner, etc. It turns out, it's all bullshit like it takes away a lot of the ability for.
55:06.48
calltocourage
The connection that happens inside intercourse like there's many many things that are happening as a function of that and the more I get reconnected. This is really a journey of coming back to self is realizing when we do things like that. We're somehow saying nature doesn't really know what it's Doing. We need to do something Better. You know like this is not perfect. The way it is. We need to do this and make a decision that's outside of exactly what it is to naturally give birth to a child. You know, even like the cutting of the umbilical cord. That's not the way that it's supposed to be done from what I now understand having spent some time in the presence of midwives that look at traditional births like that. Supposed to fall off. Naturally, it's supposed to stay connected for quite ah quite a long time and it's like I had no idea I mean obviously I haven't been through Birth or even been on that journey but it's like some part of us thinks that we know better than the natural process of what it means to give birth.
55:49.76
Gareth
Um, yeah.
55:57.55
Gareth
Yeah, but and and and that was like the big eye-opening thing about this conversation I had with this lady. You know she's like I'm just here to educate people on how to have a healthy or birth of course. But. You know, like just just hard to just hard to do things Correctly, she's like because none of we're not taught any of this Stuff. You know you're taught you know you,, you're shown like porn and taught about sort of sex and and um, all these things but you're not actually. Talked about Wow The the beauty of like giving birth and how to do it properly and stuff and she's like it's so weird like how the world has become like sort of extremely Kinky you know and that's okay, like that stuff's okay, but let's. Have the good stuff too. You know like growing like healthy people having healthy births and natural births and the way they mean to do you know like ah like I mean I know so it's it sounds like a crazy concept I don't know if you've ever heard of a lotus birth but it's.
57:10.59
calltocourage
And.
57:12.11
Gareth
Pretty amazing. But so the um, the placenta is actually like a living being right? It's it's responsible for the breathing of a baby and and and supplying its nutrients of like you know and everything too like it's it's actually it's life force. They say the the placenta. So some people. Have this thing called the Lotus birth which you deliver the baby and the placenta comes out with it. You can you keep the placenta and the baby connected like like like suck for eight days or something like that I mean it could be longer. You know it's all you all you allow for everything to disconnect naturally. But literally. Um, the placenta and the baby are kept together and that that life force the the nutrients the energy the whatever it is. That's kept in the placenta like is. Is there for like a full eight days you know because it's and it's still attached to the umbilical cord but um, and yeah people do this. It's it's pretty amazing. So you have this like kind of freaky looking thing placenta right? But it's um, you know and you know exactly.
58:13.35
calltocourage
Ah.
58:22.60
calltocourage
It's only freaky because we think it's freaky like if this was how it was done. It would be like this. That's the way we give Birth you know? yeah.
58:26.66
Gareth
Hundred percent but yeah yeah, and then all you have to do is you literally like have to put a few sort of herbs on it from what I understand and it just there's no smell or anything like that and I mean you you literally giving your kids wow what an amazing opportunity to start their life. You know, but. I mean probably 0.0001% of people experience that and know there's ah, there's ah, there's a really cool guy on insttat. What's his name is called like fallback something I can't remember me exactly but his wife recently um, like gave birth and he sort of documented the whole lotus thing and I was like yasi.
58:47.91
calltocourage
Have.
59:03.71
Gareth
It's kind of crazy. But now I know more about it I'm like let's flippin. Awesome.
59:11.70
calltocourage
Ah, there's so much stuff we don't know it's like every single day you find something out and you're like oh my God Wow Like no idea or like a completely different perspective and I think it's it's where we got to the beginning of this which was like just recognizing that you stay open to this stuff. You know, just continually.
59:16.77
Gareth
Um, yeah.
59:27.58
calltocourage
Believe that there might be a different way to give birth to a child or to understand how you know nutrition is administered or medical practices may work and um, yeah I think the more we stay open to that the more possibility we have to to expand our awareness about other. Ah, the ideas that we may not have access to.
59:46.15
Gareth
Yeah, it's and a very important thing but um to remain curious to question everything and to challenge the status quo but for sure.
01:00:00.99
calltocourage
What's what's coming up for me I'm gonna make a note to try and find someone who knows like the the details of circumcision and get them as a guest on this show because I think it's going to be such an important conversation for men like ah again, we just don't have access to this Information. We've just told this specific thing and. Yeah, we just take it at face value and care with our lives and these decisions just Perpetuate. You know, like without having this knowledge. You just make the decision again for your kid and pass on the knowledge down to them. But I'm really keen to dive a little bit deep into this. So yeah, thanks for bringing it up.
01:00:30.38
Gareth
But I can put you in touch with a lady. Her name is ah Janice Barcelo I can really put you in touch. She would be able to tell you everything? Um, there's was yeah she was on my show. Yeah I've I haven't launched that yet. but but I will soon she was she was actually on.
01:00:36.20
calltocourage
Was she on yosha.
01:00:45.40
Gareth
Another guest that we've had in the past his name is Luke Storey who would be a great guy for you to get on and yeah and and he spoke a lot about the the circumcision and stuff and he's done a lot of um research into that himself because he's also circumcised and and these sort of things and.
01:00:50.52
calltocourage
Ah, did you have look on your show. Yeah, followed him for a while.
01:00:59.50
calltocourage
Um.
01:01:04.76
Gareth
And yeah, there's some pretty crazy documentaries on there that I can forward or you've probably watched them yourself as well. But so but yeah I can put you in touch with those 2 people.
01:01:12.77
calltocourage
And then send them through and I'll put them in the show notes of this of this podcast for those that are interested and I'll I'll try and get a bit more information as well as when you launch yours um share the that interview.
01:01:25.24
Gareth
I will bed for sure. Yeah, it's ah it's a heavy listen I won't lie you know? Um, yeah, you have to kind of I don't know like because it's something that almost I don't know just this is the first time I've ever heard of it in my entire life. But I'm 42 years old I've never heard of.
01:01:40.30
calltocourage
Um.
01:01:42.72
Gareth
Like Birth trauma I mean when you think about it Now. It's like okay, it's pretty obvious you know, but like actually something that almost all of us carry is pretty heavy and hectic. But also at the same time. It's made me. Ah, little bit not a little bit. It's yeah, it's made me that bit more compassionate about people and a bit more even more wanting to know a little bit about them. You know and being interested in their behavior and.
01:02:17.70
Gareth
Yeah, so so because they're probably dealing with stuff that they don't even know like as a result I went and asked my mom and my dad actually I was like oh can you tell me about my birth like you know, just everything that you can remember and um.
01:02:27.50
calltocourage
And.
01:02:31.73
Gareth
You know I was lucky I think I had a pretty normal birth and was delivered naturally and was really quick and and all that sort of stuff and I was circumcised actually this is really interesting and I think it's something I definitely need to explore myself. Um I was circumcised at six weeks and apparently the doctor did a terrible job and I was circumcised again when I was 2 um, so I've gone through it twice and and you know I can't imagine it was an enjoyable experience especially too. Um, so that's something I need to need to delve into a little bit myself too. You know so um.
01:02:54.93
calltocourage
No fight.
01:03:10.58
Gareth
It's important for us to ask our parents about our birth but also about their birth because this lady right? So What's really interesting about is she said the trauma carries on and unless you resolve it right? so. For her. She had 5 births. Not one of those babies survived and that was because she had trauma from her birth that she had never dealt with right and I thought I thought that was really interesting So you know.
01:03:38.28
calltocourage
Yeah.
01:03:46.10
Gareth
We know this stuff gets passed on through generations and whatnot and it's um, it's a good question to to ask it? Ah not the Christmas table but um, in privates with your with your parents. You know what? I mean? Um, yeah.
01:03:57.36
calltocourage
Um, hey mum but you eat the placenta can you Foster turkey.
01:04:02.86
Gareth
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Well you see that That's that's also yeah, you see that's also very Interesting. You know because that's become like a a thing now but but actually this lady saying is there's only like 1 or 2 instances when you should do that sort of thing because if you are eating the Placenta. You are taking away your baby's life force which is not Cool. You know? Ah, but she's like there might be.. There might be instances where you as the mother possibly the dead but mostly probably the mother where you are really really struggling right? and you like you almost. Have to ask for permission you know and you say to your your kid. Obviously you don't obviously they're not going to say yes because they're they's tiny. But um, you know you say listen I would really like to to have some of this because I'm struggling with a bit of depression or my energy levels are so Low. So So you ask for permission before doing it. She's like. In. That instance, it's kind of okay but a lot of the this new agey way of of doing it is is actually sort of almost evil because she's like well they they're teaching us cannibalism because once again, the the placenta is ah a living being so.
01:05:18.14
Gareth
It's a deep hole but it's it it really I was like yeah so that there was a real eye open at that chat.
01:05:20.87
calltocourage
Um, and and.
01:05:27.92
calltocourage
So let's ah, let's talk about what you're creating at the moment you had um, a co-creation with Craig in the ridiculously human podcast. You guys took a little breather from that. Share what that journey was like as you guys created that first round share about the break that you've had and what your visions are for the podcasts going forward.
01:05:47.65
Gareth
Yeah, but ge I mean the podcast was one of the most amazing things I've ever done in my entire life. Um and doing it with Craig was just sort of extra special. Ah, we.
01:05:59.93
Gareth
We just jarled as oaks when we first met each other ah years and years ago and then like we just we always had like cool conversations and we're like yas see we should record these and you know maybe people want to listen and and and ultimately we decided to to do it. Um, and it was I mean. You know? what's so cool I mean you you obviously realize this because you have your own podcast but it gives you permission to ah to ask people to speak to them that would probably never ever ever be in your realm so to speak you know and all they can do is say no bud.
01:06:33.98
calltocourage
If in.
01:06:34.95
Gareth
You know, like then go no I'm sorry I'm like length busy I'm only going to be on Joe Rogan sort of thing but sometimes those people go yes and you just get to have this long form conversation with a great mind and it's just like you there you know, picking their kind of brains and listening to them speak.
01:06:38.72
calltocourage
But.
01:06:54.73
Gareth
Um, so we we went through like 117 guests like we're interviews and we did a lot of our own podcasts too. So we probably did like 160 episodes in total and it was just one of the best learning experiences. It changed our worldview. It. It opened up like just conversations that we would never really have and yeah it was just definitely one of my most fun things that I've ever done in my life and um, but also most interesting and one of the probably.
01:07:17.50
calltocourage
I have.
01:07:32.81
Gareth
Greatest growth spurts intellectually that that I've experienced and yeah I mean in doing it with Craig was amazing because actually we we often like to speak to different type of people and Craig always brought in people that were were like.
01:07:35.27
calltocourage
Are.
01:07:47.11
calltocourage
Um, Fred.
01:07:50.54
Gareth
More kind of like alternative thinking and I really enjoyed that you know even though I was like yasi but but looking back now I'm like yeah those were really cool people and he always he always thought like quite deeply about 2 to get on I think I was more like let's just go go go and I'd get like you know. People on to sort of keep ticking the guest list ovan stuff and he would He would think about other um like types of guests and and what they would bring to the show which is which was amazing and um, you are doing it together like it teaches you a lot of stuff about.
01:08:18.58
calltocourage
Right.
01:08:25.12
Gareth
About friendship and and but doing business with with friends and yeah that there's um, there is some magic to be had you know, um by doing a collaboration like that and ah it definitely made us like just sort of the best ebuddies.
01:08:43.83
Gareth
Um, it was probably one of the most difficult decisions to stop doing the podcast and we totally stopped at the wrong time. But I mean my god we we chose the wrong time like we were. We were really kind of like we were probably just shifting into third or fourth year you know and if we had carried on like we stopped rights in the kind of like. First three months or something like that of of covid when everybody was just online and consuming like information left right? and since and I ah truly believe if we had carried on. We would have been like really doing super super well with it now.
01:09:05.60
calltocourage
Again.
01:09:18.76
Gareth
Um, but that's hindight as well. You know and and we we there are decisions that we decided to stop with the right decisions at the time. Um I think we had actually we had actually reached a point where where it was becoming.
01:09:27.29
calltocourage
Correct.
01:09:35.64
Gareth
Quite difficult to do the podcasts because I mean he was in Australia I'm in Brazil but there's a 13 hour time difference so exact opposite but and trying to I mean just trying to get us on a cause difficult enough. But then you add someone in like a middle time zone like the UK or you know.
01:09:42.31
calltocourage
The exact opposite. Yeah.
01:09:54.33
Gareth
Say I don't know the us or something like that. It's extremely tough but and um, and ah yeah I mean but the main reason we actually stopped well we we just stopped to have a little break was because my computer died but my mac died here in Brazil my macbook. And I was like oh no and I lost everything and then um, we were just like okay, cool. Let's just take a break. Let's just Reassess K Craiggos wanted to check some stuff out with them with his wife Shanti like to see if he could help run run run their business. Um, or at least you know like like really get it going. And um, and it just it just became like longer and longer and longer that we didn't do it and um or nots flipping like it's three years but almost and two and a half years actually and um, ah yeah, but we we we decided two years ago to um to sort of go our separate ways whereby I would take over the podcast and Craig was going to help um shantti grow the business and it was totally the right thing to do ah and we like there's there's no, there's. I mean we're absolutely like our best ma still. There's there's been no issues whatsoever. We probably chat more than we ever have. Although maybe the last couple months since since you admire. But um, but you are there's there's definitely be no luck issue in terms of our relationship. Our relationship is only strengthened. Um, but i'
01:11:21.58
Gareth
I'm really excited to do the podcast again, but andve I've really pre-recorded a few interviews now and I've spoken to Craig about this too and I'm like yassi Bud we actually didn't make it easy for ourselves like when you have 2 hosts or co-hosts that are interviewing. You're in completely different time zones you you you think a little bit differently. It's you realize how difficult it is to actually um to have like a very free flowing conversation. Um. Yeah, and I'm only realizing that now you know at the time we knew it was it wasn't like um sort of as fluid as it could be in stuff and because we were totally learning. But I mean we started from never really chatting you know with anybody ever sort of thing so you're constantly learning. Um, but now like looking back I was like yeah we we actually made really kind of like it was it was difficult but it was I mean it's not like it wasn't lecquer but it was it wasn't easy to to do? Um, and I'm really looking forward to hosting by myself now and having kind of.
01:12:10.80
calltocourage
Um, yeah.
01:12:28.47
Gareth
Same conversations. But I think the flow will be a little bit but different. Um and it allows you because it allows you to go like down some sort of things that all of a sudden pop up. You know you're like yeah cool, let's just go down there. Um because we always had like questions that we had written down excuse me.
01:12:33.39
calltocourage
Um, yeah.
01:12:47.94
Gareth
Um, and we wanted to kind of get through a lot of them because they were really like interesting conversations. You know, but sometimes when it went down ah like a sort of path. You didn't expect like being the person who's going to ask a question Next you're like ah should do we carry on Danya or do should I bring it back to the the questions that we had set art. You know, but and it's not like you can chat about it because you're all on the call together. Um, So so yeah, so the the conversations now I think will will be a little bit different and more flowing but it was It was an amazing experience but like anyone that you know start a podcast because you're going to grow as a person.
01:13:07.86
calltocourage
Um, right.
01:13:24.68
Gareth
And and that's and it's going to be the best thing you can probably ever do I think.
01:13:28.71
calltocourage
Um, so what is the title of the podcast of will it remain the same.
01:13:33.61
Gareth
Yeah, but I mean I love the name to be honest with you ridiculously human and it's going to remain the same um guests are are goingnna be I think the conversation is gonna be a little bit more little bit different because even though I'm still really interested in people's life stories and that. Think there's there's more value in just touching on life stories and then speaking about like what people are experts at um so so it's going to be It's going to be less about the person and more about maybe topics but the but topics are not. Not like specific or a certain category. Um, it's it's just things that that's are interesting really to be honest with you that I think you know it's like I mean if you look at Joe Rogan but I mean that guy the the different variety of people that he has on his show is is incredible and. You know you can pick and choose ah as a listener like you are cool. Ah, you know I don't dig the mma ones I'm like oh I'm not even going to listen to those but I'll pick and choose some of the other ones and I mean who knows maybe well definitely that that means your your show might not grow.
01:14:36.97
calltocourage
Um, yeah.
01:14:43.82
Gareth
As fast or whatever that you want because you haven't sort of really honed in um, on like maybe 1 or 2 subjects but actually at the end of the day but half the reason I like to do the podcast is is in a way. Um, just for my own my own journey and my own growth and yeah. And maybe that's I don't think it's selfish at all, but it's just like it's just my own interest. Really.
01:15:09.95
calltocourage
That's the way they do it like any artistutistic creation I Think as long as you're finding joy in whatever it is that you're doing that creates the flow that is much easier to to stay with than when you force it down a specific way and maybe it doesn't feel as align. To what's most pleasurable or most exciting for you in that momento.
01:15:28.78
Gareth
Yeah, for sure and I think like I I actually think I'm the type of person who has ah an interest in a lot of things you know I'm not like ah I'm not cultish but when it comes to to what I do or.
01:15:35.70
calltocourage
A.
01:15:44.23
Gareth
The information that I seek I Ah definitely seek Lots of different types of inputs and like you are saying like now like that that actually provides to my enjoyment and as long as I'm I'm enjoying it I think that that that sort of. Comes across in a show you know and people are like oh cool they want to listen to this because this person's actually interested and they're showing good energy and and you know and and I want to actually be part of that. Um, So yeah, I'm always just being interested in a lot of things. Um, yeah, so.
01:16:18.80
calltocourage
Awesome! Nice I'm looking forward to it being released again have you got a date of when you want to press play.
01:16:19.45
Gareth
Kind of keep it that way.
01:16:27.49
Gareth
It's going to be before the end of the month for sure. So I've got some yeah I want to do like a few more end of Fabi. Yeah, so I wanted I wanted to like yeah I want to get a few more sort of interviews under the belt recorded.
01:16:32.13
calltocourage
The end of the month being the end of February Twenty three
01:16:42.74
calltocourage
Okay.
01:16:43.75
Gareth
And um and then and then do a launch from there. So really excited, but it's it's just I mean I'm sure you've experienced it as well. Bad luck. It's it's interesting. You know talking to people isn't it.
01:16:47.90
calltocourage
Awesome.
01:16:56.97
calltocourage
I'm loving it. It's been such a gift I love I love the format I love the spaciousness that I have to do it I love the fact that the conversation can go in any direction. Um like you. We've given ourselves permission for it to well season 1 1 episode a week and we decided to bang them out. We realized that that was kind of an ambitious goal without having a team and any systems in place. So what we were doing was creating this podcast and we didn't have the process in place to be able to promote it or market it or get it out into the world and so yeah, we were. In order to stick to our objective of doing one show per ah 1 show per week. We just ran from one week to the next we never quite had a bank of content and so we took a breath at the end of 12 episodes and we were like trying to catch our breath and be like what the fuck has happened. And then we were like okay and then we sat for a while much maybe like you and we're like okay well we don't want to go back to that space and one day I was like we'll do the podcast whenever we feel like it if that happens to be one a week cool if it ends up being one a month cool just flow with it and we spent some time building team and process to. Onboard guests offboard guests and then promote each episode and then also have the format to say listen if a conversation ends up being 45 minutes golden if I feel like doing a single episode or sharing a meditation or a 15 minute thing golden like there's no set rules for us and that seems like it's given us.
01:18:20.51
calltocourage
So much space that it's just been. It's been really, really beautiful and I'm I'm loving it. Ah.
01:18:25.12
Gareth
Yeah, for sure. But and I think that's like such a cool way to do it as well because you know you might actually find by having like such a sort of wide sort of um set of subjects and and way of doing things that. Eventually you do want to hone in on on something you know and like make it a bit more specific like there's something that you really do enjoy a bit more um, doing or people like type of conversations that you have or people that you speak to?? Um, so yeah, but I mean but but but knowing you the type of guy you are like.
01:18:53.47
calltocourage
Ah.
01:18:58.94
Gareth
I Hope it does remain broad but because that's you know someone with a worldview like you is is an important worldview to to have out there because you know we need to be interested in in lots of things and share that stuff too.
01:19:12.64
calltocourage
Thank you bro. Thank you man I appreciate it. Okay before I let you go I want to ask you 1 last question to tell me about the bill tongue business that's kicking off in Brazil I want to hear.
01:19:17.50
Gareth
No worries me.
01:19:24.75
Gareth
Ah, well, but this is a great. This is a great um last question it's going to be super short because I'll tell you something very interesting but and and I was quite You know when you sense out the questionnaire about like you know things that took courage and stuff like that. Um, and I don't think I really gave a good answer. But this one was maybe it's not a courage thing that it's took but so two weeks not not two weeks ago probably about six weeks ago we sat down with an expert. Yeah in Brazil who's a food production expert and she's got like you know. 2 3 masters whatever in food production because we've been dealing with the council in terms of how to you know? what? what are our requirements to to start this business right? We've imported these 2 bullet-ton making machines from South Africa and this is the process like what do we need to do I mean First of all, but.
01:20:11.76
calltocourage
And.
01:20:21.19
Gareth
Brazil is like ridiculous when it comes to to paperwork the amount of administration and um bureaucracy you need to get through is is pretty like it's insane. But I've never really experienced it anywhere else and um.
01:20:27.95
calltocourage
So. Second.
01:20:35.29
Gareth
So anyway, this guy he wasn't really giving us the information we needed because our kitchen saying hey cool what else do we need what else? do we need what else do we need and um I know he just was I think he was like trying to help us trying to be nice, whatever and then we had this meeting with this lady and it was probably one of the most important meetings I've ever had. Um, whereby she probably spoke for ah 2 hours 45 minutes out of 3 hours and just like let us know exactly how the industry works out how the meat industry works and food industry works. What the requirements are for dealing with um.
01:21:09.13
calltocourage
Ah.
01:21:12.61
Gareth
Ah, raw meats, cooked meats, Etc, etc. And um, what it was going to actually take for us to kind of break into this kind of industry and then also all the shenanigans of the industry which is pretty bloody scary. Um, so to to save you all the detail at the end of the day.
01:21:17.50
calltocourage
Um, ah.
01:21:32.29
Gareth
Um, we basically decided to to not go ahead with the bulltong business as a business because it was it was just going to suck the life out of us. Um, it was going to require way too much capital and it was.
01:21:37.37
calltocourage
This is well.
01:21:49.61
Gareth
Wasn't even going to be assert that we could even get it the the permissions to get it going. Um and I mean we you know we really been. We've already been at it for seven months but and we still have no, we were nowhere near getting any approvals for for any sign off so we actually decided to hit it on the head.
01:21:53.41
calltocourage
Hands.
01:22:07.47
Gareth
And um and just say okay, cool that was a massive lesson. You know took a bit of a hit financially. Um, but in the long run I think it's actually saved us. Yeah, just saved us a lot of of of hassle and.
01:22:21.43
calltocourage
You.
01:22:25.25
Gareth
And yeah, so we've actually decided not to launch the business. But um, yeah, so so that's where it is my friend Greg is is going to carry on. He wants to sell artisanally um, but but as a business but and bulltong Brazil unfortunately is not going to happen because it's there's too much bureaucracy. It cost.
01:22:27.30
calltocourage
Wow.
01:22:43.56
Gareth
Way too much money to set up and and to be honest with you I don't I've got to the point in my life where I have full autonomy of what I want to do and this lady she said to me, she's like Gareth. Um you you identify as obviously Gareth right. Um, she's like but you'll have to identify as Mr Bulltong ah twenty four seven for the next five years if you want this to actually be any sort of a success and she's like you need to ask yourself if that's what you want and deep down inside. But that's definitely not what I want and that was. Wasn't the main reason but there was also a big reason for going. You know what? sometimes you just got to realize when to say no bud and um, when to sort of you know pull the plug and so that's that's ah, that's where we're at.
01:23:40.11
calltocourage
Sometimes the best decisions are the ones that we say no to early hay and even where there's ah, a loss in inverted commas because you've invested some capital like that's just a bit of school Fees. You know what's more expensive is trying for another 5 years and realizing that it's still a no like yeah that deep intuition that you heard and listened to. Cute osper.
01:23:58.34
Gareth
Yeah, No thanks Man. And yeah, you 100% right? But um, the long term the long-term gain wasn't there and it wasn't worth the the pain and the pain wasn't short-term either. So um, yeah, it ah, it feels like the right decision. But then you know like. Now. It can really focus on lots of other things that I want to focus on.
01:24:21.90
calltocourage
Awesome Well maybe I'll send you a message in by your builtton machine from you because Builtton Guatemala is going and yeah, we started a slightly different way to you and we've got a really small I would say it's autismal. But yeah, it's been really well received here and um. Yeah, it's growing and we're probably making a few grand a month from it and yeah, it feels cool enjoying the process. So for me, it's been a real opportunity for me to share my love of food and all the time that I'm spending doing online creations like the podcast and my online men circle. Um. It feels really good to be doing something in the 3 d like to actually create something with my hands that I actually get to go and serve and share inside the community and it's connected me to farmers and to store owners and to customers and so yeah, it's been such a gift for me and I've been I've been really enjoying it. Ah.
01:25:14.00
Gareth
That's amazing. But and I'm super chaff for you and I think yeah, you went about doing it the right way like we should have done what you did and um yeah, but you live and you learn that's for sure.
01:25:27.31
calltocourage
Well I was I was close to wanting to just get the machine shipped here as well and I think it might have been a very different scenario because I've paid lots of school fees with a small box of build on and I know the version of me that when I had a machine that could do one hundred Kilograms I would have started with that and realized holy shit. How am I going to sell all of this. Or the mistakes that I made with you know $30 worth of meat would have been with you know, three hundred and fifty dollars worth of meat and that may have also maybe not given me the platform that I'm at at the moment. So yeah I think for the first time I know the part of me that wants to go all in up front. You know, buy the machine, get the things shipped I had the quotas a barter pull the trigger and errorment it was like just. Start and do it and yeah, anyway, layla's box laya's the puup her little house became the first builtton box and now we've got 2 boxes and they're running 2 or 3 times a week and yeah I'm enjoying it.
01:26:15.58
Gareth
Yeah, or congrats but you you've done it the right way that's for sure so I'm super Jeff for you.
01:26:21.85
calltocourage
Sweet bro I Really appreciate you taking the time to hang out where can people connect with you if they want to learn more about you and your launch of the podcast coming up. What's the best way to get hold of you.
01:26:33.43
Gareth
Yeah, so actually at the moments. Um I've been I really took ah like a haar hiatus or hiatusever you pronounce a word from from social media besides actually Twitter so I've been using Twitter a lot. Um which my handles gareth e martin. Um, but the website for the podcast is ah wwwwwdotredicridicdashhuman.com and yeah, and that's that's where we'll be launching all the new podcasts from and yeah, drop me a message wherever you want and love to connect with people and thank you to you for having me on the show. But I mean. So lucky good to see you and congrats for for everything? bad, um, such a slick operation that you run so awesome stuff superhe before you.
01:27:16.83
calltocourage
Appreciate it bro I'm looking forward to when you can connect in person whether it's in Brazil or the 3 of you come and visit Guatemala but yeah for now loving that we got to connect on on the podcast.
01:27:28.12
Gareth
Yeah, thanks brother looking forward to seeing you 2 men. Yes, see that'll be awesome. All right. Love brother see you men bye bye.
01:27:35.40
calltocourage
Ah, much love bro. Thanks! Thanks Chao bye.
